Spring Bind

[Justang2k]

Here's the deal, I put the stock rockers back in my car and they wiggle side to side, making for a noisy engine. I don't know what they heck is going on with these things. So I've been debating putting my 1.8rr's back in my car. The only thing is I'm worried about the springs binding. The cam is .505 lift on the intake and .495 on the exhaust. The 1.8rr's will make it a total lift of .525/.515. Now, Mik says I have the "upgraded springs" I'm not sure what they are rated to so I'm asking this question (I also emailed him, but haven't gotten a response and I want to do this tonight if I'm going to do it, because my tune is Tues.) So is there any way to see if the springs are binding?

I had this cam with my old heads that had a knicked valve seat and used the 1.8rr's with no problem. Now I have the BV heads... I just wanna be safe.

BTW, Mik says to be on the safe side, he'd go with the 1.73's... which he will send me if I want. RGR says I should have no problem and I shouldn't give up the extra HP by going to the 1.73's.

Thanks for a speedy response (in advance... and wishfull thinking. :p)

Justin

[justin00v6]

Can't really check spring bind on the car since the lifters aren't pumped up. And you don't know what springs you have, so we can't even guess. Do you have the upgraded retainers?

Do me a BIG favor, when you get your car dynoed get the dynojet file on disk....or at least have them turn the smoothing factor off when they print the graph.

[Justang2k]

Ok, I'll ask them to do that...

this is what Mik told me: "normally i'd say 535 lift is plenty safe, but the installed height is a smidgen higher and it has a shim so net is slightly less. so 515-525 roughly with a safety margin. but i didn't physically check it myself with the heads completely assembled since my machine is broken for that right now."

I think I'm gonna do the 1.8rr's and see what happens. If I bend a pushrod, then I'll just throw new ones in. I have an extra set.

[Stone]

get longer pushrods then. Don't add lift unless you know you won't bind or float.

[Justang2k]

Ok, I took Stones, and Mik's advice and stuck with the stock rockers. BUT, the rockers were loose side to side. it was odd. It had the preload it needed, but would shimmy side to side. So I took the rockers from the 4.2L engine I bought, and put those rockers in there. Much quieter. Yet still noisy. I checked the preload and everything looked ok. The pushrods would spin semi-freely, but would not move up and down. I assume that means that they are adjusted properly.

Now, my RPM's are still hanging. I blamed this on the fordchip, and Pete said it's a vac leak or a valve hanging open. Now I know there are no vac leaks, and the valves are not hanging open. So does this just mean I need a good tune. At one point I took the chip out and started it. It idled perfect and the rpms didn't hang. I didn't run it that long for fear of messing something up. Basically this is what happens. I'll come to a stop, and the rpms will hang at about 2k for 10 seconds, then it'll drop to 1200rpm then to 1000rpm. then it idles there... kinda high. When I had the chip out, it would idle at the normal idle speed 800-900ish. I really want to hear it's just in need of a tune. :p

Funny, all the intake rockers needed a .030 shim where as none of the exhaust rockers needed them.

So I'll be going to the FC tune alittle embarassed. The car still ticks a bit. :(

[Thor]

Yeah, like I said I'm still trying to figure out why my car does this. Most of the time it will idle perfectly (with a little lump :word:) around 750, but then it will sometimes drop to 500 then bounce to 1000 and will do this back and forth until I give it gas and hold it constant. Other times it will sit at 2 grand before slowly coming back down and idleing around 1000.

Since most of the time it idles fine, and I can't find a vac leak, I have no idea what's going on with it.

[Stone]

So does this just mean I need a good tune?

yes

[RGR]

I talked to Mik extensively about your situation
on the phone Saturday. Since he did not get the
proper IH figures himself, you cannot really make
a guess at max lift figures, even tho the info I have
(all second hand, sorry) on this spring and valve combo
makes me believe it would work, I can't say "go ahead"

I've checked similar combos at around .560-.580
safe lift but retainer differences, valve job depth,
and slightly different springs all adds up to a major
variable that could cause trouble.

Mik's shop told him "stick with the .505 lift"
and he got them to admit .520 would be OK too,
but the way he told me that they measure
spring capability, they waste lots of usable lift.
I've actually measured these things and never
had a problem speccing springs but this combo
I have not measured, so I cannot say. I never
take anyone's word on it anymore, I measure.
Except I would trust Mik if he measured
it himself, we do it the same way, and I think
Gaston does it like us now. If we 3 had more info
we could probably say "go ahead" but we don't.
I'll have a test spring like that really soon, and
if Mik can get a true IH # I will have a ruling.
So keep your 1.8's for now, I'm pretty sure
you can use them but I'll test the spring and
let you know.

Get me an IH Mik, and I'll give you the spring data,
we can both work up a # and let Justin know.

[justin00v6]

If Justang can check his installed height and then if its one of the commonly used springs then we'll know. I have a few springs here and a tavia tester, if you guys don't.

[RGR]

it is not a common spring.

[Thor]

I must assume that the spring Mik put on my heads is the same as the one that is on Justang's. Mik decided to use the "upgraded" springs over the ones I bought from RGR (yellow striped Ford valve springs).

[RGR]

Good move, if you are going BV or changed cams (more lift) Thor.

[Thor]

Good move, if you are going BV or changed cams (more lift) Thor.

Yeah they're big valved. I wish I could use the entire flow range of these heads, but that is a lot of lift and that requires new springs, machinework, and a new cam.

[RGR]

Good move, if you are going BV or changed cams (more lift) Thor.

Yeah they're big valved. I wish I could use the entire flow range of these heads, but that is a lot of lift and that requires new springs, machinework, and a new cam.

The camming is really touchy with the stock runner lengths,
207 is darn near perfect... but you get good gains even at
the lifts involved, so it should be worth it!

I'd just like to see a cam with lots more lift
and the same basic durations. Or a bigger
cam and custom upper :D

[Justang2k]

Car is still pretty loud. tapping wise. But I made the 120mile trip back to school and all went well. The car is fast! I can pass people at ease!

[RGR]

Do you have shims under the pedestals now?

Perhaps the rockers are sliding side to side on the
sled fulcrum, or is the pedestal moving?

[Justang2k]

The pedestals are not moving. It's the actually arm moving on the pedestal.

There are these groves that have to be matched up on the ped. and the arm. On my old rocker arms there weren't any groves on the arm. So I assumed that the groves kept them inplace, and since mine had been worn down, that's why it was moving. Now I have like 1 or 2 that wiggle alittle. Roller rockers should be here tomorrow. :p

Tune is today at 4pm! :D

[RGR]

Good, the rollers will fix U up :D

Get a good # Justin!
Mik wants to see how the BV heads do and I want cam data :)

[RGR]

PS: Don't let them wimp out on the RPM's.
The springs are good for over 7K probably.
The cam might be able to pull over 6K if we're lucky.

[justin00v6]

yeah rev that sucker

[Stone]

a 4.2 with that small a cam will peak early

[RGR]

The intakes carry the torque curve to 6K on a stock 3.8,
I believe this will go well into the 5K ranges, perhaps 6K.

The cam itself is kinda small, even on a 3.8 but split ports
love the short durations. The intakes carry the day IMO.

[Justang2k]

yeah, but what RPM does the 4.2L engine fall apart? lol.

I'd imagine they'd take it up till they stop producing power.

[RGR]

I'd imagine they'd take it up till they stop producing power.

I've seen numerous V6 dyno runs cut short for no apparent
reason. Probably more than half of the ones I've seen sheets for.
Discuss it with the dyno op. before the runs.

[justin00v6]

I'd imagine they'd take it up till they stop producing power.

You don't see the curve until after the run is made.