Gun people --- My next purchase

[Justang2k]

Looking at my next purchase. It's going to be a 1911. I've narrowed it down to a Kimber or a Springfield. Each are good guns, Kimber was named the LAPD SWAT (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3623/is_200304/ai_n9181027) teams official side arm. Which is very cool since it went up against 5 other 1911's and won... from the article: "According to sources, LAPD SWAT insisted on purchasing the Kimber product even though another manufacturer offered to provide its pistol free of charge." To me that says something very good about the Kimber. The Springfield got the contract for the FBI in1998 (although that particular gun is like $1200+, where as the SWAT Kimber is less than $800.) But Springfield was not their first choice, Les Baer was (QC problems). Then Matt Gish (unable to meet demand). Then Springfield. Basically they got it because they could produce.

So basically it's going to be the Springfield Loaded or the Kimber Custom II (The Custom II is the same as the TLE II but minus the 30lpi back strap and night sights, and minus almost $200... and the TLE is the exact gun SWAT carries.) I don't need the night sights, and don't like the back strap, my HK USP40 is my tactical gun. So my problem is which one to choose. Price is about the same... all within $50 or so. Kimbers are known to be a great gun. But lately they've put a lot of MIM parts in their guns which has made for some QC problems. Springfield is a legendary name, but has had a few problems with that particular gun. Springfield has also retained the internal extractor, where as Kimber has gone to an external extractor (from what I understand the external extractor is cheaper to manufacture.) It really sounds like Kimber is trying to cut cost, but on the flip side they still make desireable guns.

It's a reall toss up for me. I'm at the point where I don't know if I want a blued gun or a stainless steel gun. Each has it's good points. Blued is very tactical looking and cool looking in its own respect. But there is something about a SS 1911 that gets ya going.

So, I'm lost. One minute I think I want the Kimber, then the next I think I want the Springfield. I've always wanted a Kimber, and the Custom II/TLE II is a bitchen gun. But for some reason the Springfield calls out to me. So I guess if you guys could give me some feedback, or personal experience, that might help me.

Here's some pics:
Parkerized Springfield (http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/spr_px9109l.jpg)
Stainless Springfield (http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/spr_px9151l.jpg)
Kimber Custom II (http://www.gunshopfinder.com/Kimber/custom2.jpg)

[SICK6]

I have the stainless springfield, black grips, trigger work, sights, ramp work and some small tweeks. This gun groups well and has been my fav for ten years.

[catass]

blah ...go with a Springfield XD ...1911-based sidearms always end up being "BANG, jam, BANG BANG, stove pipe, BANG, feeding issue, BANG jam"

[t70six]

My father-in-law gave me his Colt that he got when he was stationed in Germany in '58. Wasn't fired ever. I took it, cleaned the cosmoline off the mags and it has never jammed. Boxes of rounds have gone through it.

[Dutch]

Great idea, Justang. I've always like the 1911, but never really liked firing them. I guess I have small girlie hands that don't fit around the grip well enough.

[Justang2k]

1911's have pretty small grips. It's one of the reasons I like the gun. Single stack .45's are slim, it's those double stack .45's that kill me. My hand's borderline with a double stack .45. Ever held a Desert Eagle? I feel like kid holding that gun. Way to damn big for my hand.

XD is not the type of gun I want. I've got an HK which is 10x better than an XD. The 1911 is a very cool gun to have. Not only is it a great gun, it's a piece of history. Some thing about shooting the .45. It's smooth like butter.

After the 1911 my plans are to get a Springfield M1A, and a Garand. I also want a 30-30 lever action gun.

I went shooting yesterday, had a blast. ha ha, not pun intended. My SKS is friggen dead on balls right now. I swear it felt like I could hit anything with that gun yesterday. Short or far I nailed it. My Kel-Tec SU16 was another story. It's been a great gun until yesterday. I kept having failure to extracts. It's not new ammo, same brand. I had one FTE where the next round tried to load and it smashed the bullet deep into the casing. That gets scary. So I'll be calling Kel Tec tomorrow. I also tried this new ammo in my .45LC and loved it. Smooth shooting round, just shoots a bit high. Made me really love that gun again. HK always performs nicely. But I really ****ed up my hand yesterday. I have a pistol grip only shotgun and decided to shoot buck shot through it (normally just shoot bird shot) and it tore the crap out of my right hand. It's a sore mofo right now. I think that'll prompt my next purchase for it, the Knoxx Cop Stock. A few weeks ago I was going to buy a .44mag. I've always wanted one, and I watched all the Dirty Harry's and decided I should get one. lol. Then I decided I wanted a 1911 more. Anyway, my dad loaded up some hot rounds for his .44mag. Holy crap, every time I shot it I felt like somebody punched me in my face. What a gun!!!!!

[viper32cm]

I'd get the Kimber. Good gun, good price.

Damn I miss shooting.

[StreetCruiser]

1911>All. Any gun that is a pos, or is using crappy ammo or mags will jam. The 100 year old design of JMB is still the finest combat handgun on the planet.

If money wasnt a real issue (like deciding btwn an 850 dollar pistol and an 1100 dollar one), get the Kimber Warrior II. Its the old series, no firing pin safety, internal extractor, etc. Its supposed to be what the USMC MEUSOC are carrying now while waiting for thier armory to make more custom 1911's.

I have 2 1911's, one single stack, and one double stack. They are a great design.

:word:

[Justang2k]

Price is an issue. Not so much that $50-$100 is gonna make a difference. But I'd like to stay under $800 out the door. That's why it's between the Kimber Custom II and the Springfield Loaded.

[viper32cm]

JMB > *

[StreetCruiser]

Well then, I would go with the Kimber custom II. :word:

Keep it clean, lubed with some grease, and use Wilson 47D mags, and be happy. The Milt Sparks Versa-Max II is the best IWB holster for it on the market, bar none.

[Justang2k]

Well then, I would go with the Kimber custom II. :word:

any particular reason? Or just personal choice?

What finishes do you have?

[StreetCruiser]

Well, I am biased due to the fact that I own a Kimber BP TENII. Blued finish. I have always shot the kimbers well, and my customers like them as well. Springfield does make some nice 1911's, esp the Operator, but thier mid-line pistols have never done anything for me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/akscott60/kimber3.jpg

This one is my South African Griffon with a nickel slide...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/akscott60/1911pics.bmp

[Justang2k]

Put a deposit down on the Kimber Custom II. It's blued and out the door its going to be just under $600. Not a bad price at all. Price was the deciding factor. Springfields were about $750 out the door. And his distributor was having a deal on the Kimbers.

My first 1911. :D :D :D :D :D :D

[afinley11]

blah ...go with a Springfield XD ...1911-based sidearms always end up being "BANG, jam, BANG BANG, stove pipe, BANG, feeding issue, BANG jam"

Well put for the money it is about the best side arm I ran across ( for the price it is!) I own an XD sub com .40. Great weapon as it comes fully throated barel. Also for just a tad bit more from the factory you can get the tridium sight put on!

[viper32cm]

Put a deposit down on the Kimber Custom II. It's blued and out the door its going to be just under $600. Not a bad price at all. Price was the deciding factor. Springfields were about $750 out the door. And his distributor was having a deal on the Kimbers.

My first 1911. :D :D :D :D :D :D

Damn, that's a nice price. Lucky, lucky.

[Justang2k]

I misunderstood him. The gun is just under $600 and the OTD price is going to be around $700. Still a great price for that gun. Still beats the Springer price. :D

****ing California too. They made you take a test to get a handgun. So I did that 3 years ago. So now I went to buy this gun and they've changed the certification. So I had to take another test. Not that the test is hard, it's really stupid. It's the $25 you have to pay to take the test. Basically it's just another tax on the gun. California really doesn't want people to buy guns. :mad:

[2000Drew]

Kimber is better. Springfield is a good low/midrange price gunmaker, but it's not wonderful. Springfield is Czyk, btw.

[viper32cm]

Kimber is better. Springfield is a good low/midrange price gunmaker, but it's not wonderful. Springfield is Czyk, btw.

Springfield is Czech?

The XD they imported from Eastern Europe, but I thought the main products were from the US???

[StreetCruiser]

Kimber is better. Springfield is a good low/midrange price gunmaker, but it's not wonderful. Springfield is Czyk, btw.

Springfield is Czech?

The XD they imported from Eastern Europe, but I thought the main products were from the US???


Springfield Armory is an AMERICAN company. The XD pistol line is a partnership with Croatia. The XD used to be imported as the HS2000. The frames of some of thier WW2 reissue 1991A1's are made my IMBEL in Brazil.

[viper32cm]

Springfield Armory is an AMERICAN company. The XD pistol like is a partnership of Croatia. The XD used to be imported as the HS2000.

I'm aware of that. Which is why I was puzzeled by the "Czyk"

[2000Drew]

whoops. Sorry, i meant croatia.

Springfield armory, the company that began in 1794, went OUT OF BUSINESS IN 1968. They trade on the fact that they now own the name of the Springfield armory.
(http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=129)
It's not the same company anymore that made the garand for the army. The new version of the company sells alot of firearms IMPORTED FROM OTHER COUNTRIES AND STAMPED WITH THE NAME AND LOGOS OF SPRINGFIELD ARMORY, WHICH IS AMERICAN. the XD is DESIGNED AND PRODUCED in croatia. I don't see how it's american except for the fact that it is SOLD here.

Springfield armory sold UZI's in the 90's. Are you going to tell me the UZI is American too?(http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/receivermarks.htm)

I'm not saying the XD is a shitty gun, i'm just saying
A. It's a decent gun, but don't expect it to perform as reliably and acurately as a $2,000 gun.

B. Don't mistakenly buy something expecting American workmanship (for better or worse) and get workmanship from another country.

C. Just because a company is American doesn't mean it sells American goods.

[viper32cm]

whoops. Sorry, i meant croatia.

Springfield armory, the company that began in 1794, went OUT OF BUSINESS IN 1968. They trade on the fact that they now own the name of the Springfield armory.
(http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=129)
It's not the same company anymore that made the garand for the army. The new version of the company sells alot of firearms IMPORTED FROM OTHER COUNTRIES AND STAMPED WITH THE NAME AND LOGOS OF SPRINGFIELD ARMORY, WHICH IS AMERICAN. the XD is DESIGNED AND PRODUCED in croatia. I don't see how it's american except for the fact that it is SOLD here.

Springfield armory sold UZI's in the 90's. Are you going to tell me the UZI is American too?(http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/receivermarks.htm)

I'm not saying the XD is a shitty gun, i'm just saying
A. It's a decent gun, but don't expect it to perform as reliably and acurately as a $2,000 gun.

B. Don't mistakenly buy something expecting American workmanship (for better or worse) and get workmanship from another country.

C. Just because a company is American doesn't mean it sells American goods.

All very good points.

[Justang2k]

Springfield's higher end stuff is still made here in the US.

[2000Drew]

cool.