roundtable discussion: Let's make up an "ORDER OF MODS&

[justin00v6]

To expand on what frank said, lets single out the effective bolt-ons:
CAI
UD Pulley

You're not going to get much from wires, especially on a stock car.

[V6Sprout]

Frank, since when is a TC a bolt-on images/smiles/icon_smile.gif more like a bolt IN images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[SpectorV]

You could group it in stages, set the basic easy mods in the first stage, and so on.

Stage 1

Exhaust system

CAI or Ram Air

Underdrive Pulleys

Spark Plug Wires

Ignition system

Shifter or shift kit (5-spd or auto)


Stage 2.

Torque converter (auto)

Drag suspension (racing only)

Throttle body

MAF


Stage 3.

PP intakes

Head work

Cam

Lifters, springs


Stage 4

forged internals

crank

supercharger

nitrous

turbo

all depending on how you decided to go of course, N\A or not.

[jeff720]

Isn't an ignition system like $400?

[majorbta]

well the only one that actually works on our car is the jacobs.. i don't think anyone has gotten the msd to work.. but the Jacobs you can get from jegs for like 360 shiped

[D99stang]

I have based most of my mods on one thing-PRICE. My first mod was a Jaccobs ign + wire's. I good a good deal. Next I got a cai. I got it at cost. Shift kit was next for 100 bucks installed. 8.8 -free, then gears- used 100 bucks. After that was duals.
It all balences out in the end prety much.
To me the best bang for the buck is a pulley hands down. Then cai and duals. Then gears+ chip.
If I would have done anything diff I would have done more suspension mods. - coming soon. I'm getting a stall next.

[RGR]

great stuff guys.

I'll look these over and make a few comments,
Justin is 100% right tho, a stock engine to big HP
NA does not need ign wires unless U upgrade
the igniton unit. And the stocker should be
dandy right up until U add the blower ot get
around 250-300 BHP. That is where I'd put
ignition and wires.

I also like how U all are staying away from
naming brands, for the most part.
UD pullies are all pretty much the same
except for the material they are made of.
And durability. But U get what U pay for.
I personally have BBK alum. UD's and they seem
very good so far. Needed to many jumps so I
replaced the alt. pulley back to stock.
Works great now! (Fox Body alternators were
noted for weak output w/UD's on crank and alt)

I like how Spector V puts it:
Stage 1

Exhaust system

CAI or Ram Air

Underdrive Pulleys

GEARS

*Ignition system and plug wires*

Shifter or shift kit (5-spd or auto)


Stage 2.

Torque converter (auto)

Drag suspension (racing only)

Throttle body

MAF (gutted or aftermarket)


Stage 3.

PP intakes

Head work

Cam

pushrods, springs
(I know of not a single case anyone needed to
replace their roller lifters yet)

FUEL SYSTEM UPGRADES
needed at or after this point.

190/255 lph fuel pump

Bigger Injectors

Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator

etc.


Stage 4

forged internals

crank

supercharger

nitrous

turbo

* upgraded only if forced induction or N2O
is in the future plans. Or major NA HP, over 300 or so.

Made a couple edits... images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: RGR ]

[Electricat]

That looks good, but aren't you going to need some fuel sytem upgrades? Maybe somewhere round about the end of Stage 3??

[RGR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Electricat:
That looks good, but aren't you going to need some fuel sytem upgrades? Maybe somewhere round about the end of Stage 3??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Good point 'Cat!

Great placement too!
José hit the limit
of his Stock inj's
right about 220-230 BHP.
(just at 190 RWHP)

I'll fix it...

[whitestang]

well i think nitrous is actually a cheap mod to do it like $700 for a good safe setup,

easiest is cai, UD, and jacobs wires and ignition

nexts is duals, gears, shifter

then P/P head and intake, LT

[workmangc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by majorbta:
i don't think anyone has gotten the msd to work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sure they do...Haven't had a single problem with mine. E-mail at workman75@aol.com if anyone is having problems.
Later
images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RGR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by workmangc:



Sure they do...Haven't had a single problem with mine. E-mail at workman75@aol.com if anyone is having problems.
Later
images/smiles/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kewl man! great to have options!

[RGR]

For maximum bang-for-bux and so
a guy does not have to change
parts later. IMO, it starts with
GEARS and DUALS, or DUALS and GEARS.

P&P & cam is pretty far down, IMO...
most ppl. who come to me have already
done most of the bolt-ons by then.

I suggest putting it into groups,
whether by:

Price,
Ease of Install,
SC or NA grouping.

1. GEARS and DUALS
Gears:
A. 7.5" rear: 3.27, 3.45, 3.73, 4.10
B. 8.8" rear: 3.27, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10
Duals:
GT Cat-back or H-Pipe adapter or Custom
2.25" and 2.5" sizing

2. BOLT-ONS
A. Easy, cheap and fast:
B. More involved, more $$$

3. P&P, Cams (cost intensive)

4. Shortblock Building! (big bux)

help me fill out these categories.

[FrankSC97]

Cheap bolt-ons:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>CAI or Ram Air
<LI>Underdrive Pulleys
<LI>Spark Plug Wires
<LI>Ignition system
<LI>Shifter or shift kit (5-spd or auto)
[/list]

Expensive bolt-ons:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Nitrous
<LI>Torque converter (auto)
<LI>Drag suspension (racing only)
[/list]

Inexpensive bolt-ons for low hp:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Throttle body
<LI>MAF
<LI>Spark Plugs
<LI>K&N Air Filter
[/list]

[FrankSC97]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whitestang:
well i think nitrous is actually a cheap mod to do it like $700 for a good safe setup,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it's more than the $200 or so for parts like a CAI, pulleys gears, etc. Nitrous is also about the same price as a torque converter and a full-blown suspension setup.

[cheap]

I think you guys pretty much got it figured out.
Stage 1 - intake (CAI, K+N, whatever), exhaust, UD, and gears (stereo should be in there somewhere, maybe pre-stage 1. Sucks to be ridin around with tin tunes, even if this is supposed to be performance-oriented).
Stage 2 - HP for the turns... Shift kit/shifter, springs + shocks, tires, sway bars, strut tower brace; and a fuel pump (prep for stg 3).
Stage 3 - P+P, MAF, injectors, Heads, cam, TB. Possibly a cooler thermo? 180*.
Stage 4 - PREPPED BLOCK, forged internals, power adder. Might at this point have to look at upgrading driveline components, ie tranny, driveshaft, axles... with all 4 stages, making a lot more power than planned for V6 driveline parts.

My .02

[Blake95]

MSD DIS 4 is worthless. so remove it from the lists. i had it when i had UD pulley. CAI, transgo, and MSD wires. no gains at all. no power, mpg nothing

looking at what i did. i say this order

GEARS
shifter/shift kit
CAI/UD/Duals, or just duals if planning SC
suspension
SC. n2o, turbo
p/p heads and cam

[RGR]

Blakey, why should we all do it backwards like U did images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

(SC b4 P&P) haha
many ppl. do it that way,
get used to the SC and fueling
requirements, then add P&P.
That is fine actually.

[Blake95]

ok the first thing to do is

GEARS

ur on ur own from there images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RGR]

Stage 1

Exhaust system

CAI or Ram Air

Underdrive Pulleys

GEARS

Shifter or shift kit (5-spd or auto)


Stage 2.

Torque converter (auto)

Drag suspension (racing only)

Throttle body

MAF (gutted or aftermarket)


Stage 3.

PP intakes

Head work

Cam

pushrods, springs
(I know of not a single case anyone needed to
replace their roller lifters yet)

*Ignition system and plug wires*


FUEL SYSTEM UPGRADES
needed at or after this point.

190/255 lph fuel pump

Bigger Injectors

Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator

etc.


Stage 4

forged internals

crank

supercharger

nitrous

turbo

* upgraded only if forced induction or N2O
is in the future plans. Or major NA HP, over 300 or so.


Updated list.
Moved ign system to Stage 3,
which is better. Some will not
need it even then, depending
on HP levels, but that is roughly
when U need it.

[SpectorV]

you could also add some suspension mods, or maybe a new set of stages for suspension set ups. Start off with:
rims and tires
lower control arms
upper control arms
sub frames
coil overs /w with shocks and struts
lowering springs
cc plates if needed

have a set up for road coarse and for drag racing. Each has its own set ups. I know there are many more.

SpectorV

and i forgot gears adn tlok above, dont know how i think they are one of the first mods needed.

[RGR]

Diff. list for that stuff. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[workmangc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blake95:
MSD DIS 4 is worthless. so remove it from the lists. i had it when i had UD pulley. CAI, transgo, and MSD wires. no gains at all. no power, mpg nothing

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bear with me here, not trying to flame you or anything but according for to the message in the advertisement they aren't claiming any increase in hp. What it WILL do is give you greater flexability. allowing you to yank out timing at specific rpm and rate to avoid engine damage you can lower max rev limits....(or set them if you don't have them like me) It allows you to have a staging rpm that is selectable and the ignition interupt isn't a bad thing either. One other thing to think of is that alot of V6'ers are looking to forced induction. Increased cylinder pressures can and will cause ignition problems. The current factory ignition systems work well but only up to a point. At some point the cylinder pressures will exceed the ignitions abiltiy to jump the gap and ignite the A/F mixture. To expect A definate notice in HP from a ignition upgrade on a relativly stock car is being very hopefull.
Later images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Blake95]

i have thought about trying the MSD DIS 4 since i am blown now, but havent. i am just saying the MSD DIS 4 should be the OPITIONAL mods once u are done with ur main mods. kinda like upgrading the EEC to like a tecII or speed pro, and other mods like that

[2000Drew]

damn, i've been doing it all wrong!

[workmangc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blake95:
i am just saying the MSD DIS 4 should be the OPITIONAL mods once u are done with ur main mods.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True...there are definately better ways to spend $350+ on your car, especially in the early stages. Even when adding a supercharger the stock ignition will do, but after a point there will come a time where you need it. I would imagine that the MSD or the Jacobs unit should be towards the upper end of the mods list.
Later guys images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[RGR]

Yeah, just shows how good the stock ignition
is now! But the MSD would pay off for P-500
mr Blake... with 15+# of boost, U will need
help! I assume U have already changed plugs
and closed the gap some... ?

U could run a bigger gap w/ MSD
and maybe get a little more fire.

[tire]

ttt for that other guy who was asking about the order of mods...

Can a moderator please move this to the lounge for the guy who started a similar thread?

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: V6PowerStang ]

[DaPolishDude]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RGR:
Stage 1

Exhaust system

CAI or Ram Air

Underdrive Pulleys

GEARS

Shifter or shift kit (5-spd or auto)


Stage 2.

Torque converter (auto)

Drag suspension (racing only)

Throttle body

MAF (gutted or aftermarket)


Stage 3.

PP intakes

Head work

Cam

pushrods, springs
(I know of not a single case anyone needed to
replace their roller lifters yet)

*Ignition system and plug wires*


FUEL SYSTEM UPGRADES
needed at or after this point.

190/255 lph fuel pump

Bigger Injectors

Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator

etc.


Stage 4

forged internals

crank

supercharger

nitrous

turbo

* upgraded only if forced induction or N2O
is in the future plans. Or major NA HP, over 300 or so.


Updated list.
Moved ign system to Stage 3,
which is better. Some will not
need it even then, depending
on HP levels, but that is roughly
when U need it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and 20 thousand dollars later you my friend are done images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[flex9999]

Bang for buck... #1 Turbo images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[RGR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaPolishDude:


and 20 thousand dollars later you my friend are done images/smiles/icon_razz.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

U kidding? I get FREE LABOR! images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
And all kinds of hook-ups...

[Kranium31]

good stuff,

Here is what im planning for the very near future

4.10's and t-lock
Crank pulley
Water pump pulley
Alternater pulley
Mac CAI
MAF kit that fits with MAC (which one is that??)

and maybe c-springs,
also getting 16 inch GT (waffle style)wheels with new tires (free images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )


any comments and any other things i can do that is kinda cheap

oh im also going to be running BFG DR's on 15inch welds images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Kranium31]

bump for opinions images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

oh and im obviously looking for a good E.T. images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[RGR]

just put a link to this in his post...
I could not find his post.

[RGR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kranium31:
good stuff,

Here is what im planning for the very near future

4.10's and t-lock images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
Crank pulley images/smiles/icon_smile.gif
Water pump pulley images/smiles/icon_confused.gif
Alternater pulley images/smiles/icon_confused.gif (where U getting these?)
Mac CAI images/smiles/icon_sad.gif (DMM is better, cheaper)
MAF kit that fits with MAC (which one is that??) I believe that is the C&L...

and maybe c-springs,
also getting 16 inch GT (waffle style)wheels with new tires (free images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )
KEWL! Love those waffles...


any comments and any other things i can do that is kinda cheap

oh im also going to be running BFG DR's on 15inch welds images/smiles/icon_wink.gif
NITTO's (DR's) claim 4 times the tread life...
20K vs. 5K miles on the street.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What year is your car? It matters!
Certain mods are more cost effective on
the 94-98, others are better for 99^...
I got a whole list of cheap/free mods!
Save yer money, and build yer own CAI!!!
I have done a ram-air and a CAI, both
really cheap, both probably better flowing
than one U can buy. Or get the DMM if U can't
build one.

[justin00v6]

Cut the flange off the MAC cai and then get a 3.5" ID rubber coupling, that will mate up nicely to a pro-m 75mm bullet maf, since the inlet on it is 3.5" and so is the mac cai forward tube.

[RGR]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by DB:
Also, almost everybody and their mother says that you will need at LEAST a bad ass blower before upgrading the Throttle Body (at least on the 99+)...so since it'd be a minimal gain for $200, put it at the bottom of the list.<hr></blockquote>

This list is not just for 99^, ( I realize U know that)
but IMO a TB would probably be worth it w/a great NA
motor buildup. That is a big Q that needs answered
in the near future. Greg Singer got a 65mm TB
he thought it helped, but he had ported
intakes and lots of boltons, and gears.

[ March 17, 2002: Message edited by: Gaston ]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gaston's only contribution to the whole list images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ September 19, 2002: Message edited by: RGR ]</p>

[Kranium31]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RGR:


What year is your car? It matters!
Certain mods are more cost effective on
the 94-98, others are better for 99^...
I got a whole list of cheap/free mods!
Save yer money, and build yer own CAI!!!
I have done a ram-air and a CAI, both
really cheap, both probably better flowing
than one U can buy. Or get the DMM if U can't
build one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah my car is a 98, i dont think that i could build my own CAI dont really have the time. but id like to see that list of cheap/free mods anything helps images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Electricat]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RGR:


This list is not just for 99^, ( I realize U know that)
but IMO a TB would probably be worth it w/a great NA
motor buildup. That is a big Q that needs answered
in the near future. BTW, when I did the first
65mm TB
for Greg Singer in 99, he thought it helped, but he
had ported
intakes and lots of boltons, and gears. It was an
adapted 4.6 TB like Justin sells now images/smiles/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The '95 GT (60mm) TB (w/ ported out crossover and p&p'ed bottom half of runners) made a noticable difference on my '95, about as much as putting on dual exhaust did. The only other mods I had at the time were duals and CAI. The '94-98's probably benefit more from a TB than the '99+, because ours was only 50mm if I remember right. With under $50 in the project start to finish, it was definately worth it.

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Electricat ]

[Kranium31]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Electricat:


The '95 GT (60mm) TB (w/ ported out crossover and p&p'ed bottom half of runners) made a noticable difference on my '95, about as much as putting on dual exhaust did. The only other mods I had at the time were duals and CAI. The '94-98's probably benefit more from a TB than the '99+, because ours was only 50mm if I remember right. With under $50 in the project start to finish, it was definately worth it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

and justin sells the TB?
how big can you go on a stock car with the TB??

[RGR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kranium31:


and justin sells the TB?
how big can you go on a stock car with the TB??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And BBK makes a 70mm for the 99^ now.
I think Justin's 65 is cheaper.
The 70 is about the practical limit,
any bigger and U have to modify (weld or epoxy)
the IAC passage. It is adjacent to the
crossover tube.

[Kranium31]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RGR:


And BBK makes a 70mm for the 99^ now.
I think Justin's 65 is cheaper.
The 70 is about the practical limit,
any bigger and U have to modify (weld or epoxy)
the IAC passage. It is adjacent to the
crossover tube.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so the 65 is a direct fit then, hmm looks like i can add one more thing to do before april images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[D Berry154]

Can we ask questions on this thread for the different stages? I have one...how can I get an aftermarket MAF on my MAC Cai?
Also, almost everybody and their mother says that you will need at LEAST a bad ass blower before upgrading the Throttle Body (at least on the 99+)...so since it'd be a minimal gain for $200, put it at the bottom of the list.

[RGR]

bump by request images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

for my buddies @ 3.8

[RGR]

bump again, for MACSTANG

[worm112]

has anyone had problems with the UD pulleys and a system. I have two tens and am running around 1000 amps. I have heard of people being stuck because of the pulleys and stereo combination? I have heard they are a good buy but i don't want to dive in and do the install and be left sittin. Thanx!

[RGR]

U are right.

Justin at VMP sells UD crank pullies
with an OVERDRIVE (faster) alt pully
to make up the difference.

Ask Justin00V6 about that. It is a great
idea with big stereo systems.

[Kranium31]

damn havent seen this in a while

[Kranium31]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kranium31:
good stuff,

Here is what im planning for the very near future

4.10's and t-lock
Crank pulley
Water pump pulley
Alternater pulley
Mac CAI
MAF kit that fits with MAC (which one is that??)

and maybe c-springs,
also getting 16 inch GT (waffle style)wheels with new tires (free images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif )


any comments and any other things i can do that is kinda cheap

oh im also going to be running BFG DR's on 15inch welds images/smiles/icon_wink.gif <hr></blockquote>


the only thing i did on this list was the MAC cai images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
i went from 16s to 18s
and got c-springs with koni reds, i sure didnt stick to what i had planned images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[RGR]

ttt

[Danny Baker]

#1 duals,#2 If the wife blinks when ya mention it get the blower with a fordchip,#3 you will need t-lok cause you will burn the right back tire off. This set up will be fun for a long time if ya don't over rev it all the time. If you do not plan on keeping the car leave off the blower. I did it bass akwards, because she blinked. This list you started is great Robert.

[RGR]

ttt