4.2 swap-Pics/Problems-Car runs like a CHAMP........7/26 DUW

[Justang2k]

I'm tearing down my engine right now to put a 4.2L engine in and Mik's heads, intakes, and the 207/215 cam.

anyway, I ran into a couple of problems when tearing down my 3.8 to pull the engine:

1st: When I went to take the P/S pump and Alt off I found that they are all on one bracket. Then there is a bracket just attached to the P/S pump. but it looks like you have to pull the P/S pump pulley to get that bracket off. Do I need a special tool to do that?

2nd: After encountering the first problem I just went along with what I could do. So I took the A/C off then started on the Upper intake and fuel rail. I got them both off, but the fuel rail is still connected to the fuel line. it's one of those special connections. how do I get that off? is that also a special tool also?

basically, are there special tools that I need? or do you guys have any neat tricks to do them without getting the special tools?

thanks

Justin

[mikey94_95]

yes special tools are required for both PS pulley and fuel lines.

[Silver Bullet]

u can pick those fuel line tools up at autozone and such, they sell them in packs of 5 i belive (5 diff sizes) it's around 8 bucks.

[justin00v6]

did you discharge the AC yet? you can just hang the ac compressor off to the side of the engine bay

[Justang2k]

did you discharge the AC yet? you can just hang the ac compressor off to the side of the engine bay

I was just gonna hang it outa the way so I didn't have to discharge it.

------------------------

cool, thanks. I guess I'll be going and buying those tools.

Justin

[Silver Bullet]

did you discharge the AC yet? you can just hang the ac compressor off to the side of the engine bay

I was just gonna hang it outa the way so I didn't have to discharge it.

------------------------

cool, thanks. I guess I'll be going and buying those tools.

Justin

yea, that's wut i did.

[stylin97]

you dont have to remove the PS pump pulley, you can get at the bolts if you try hard enough, then when you get it off hang it out of the way like the a/c

with the fuel lines, heres a neat trick clint taught me.. take a 2 liter soda bottle and cut out a strip about 1" x 2" and fold it and slide it in the fuel line and pull it off (if you know how a fuel line disconnect tool works u will know how to use the little soda bottle strip)... works awesome!

[Justang2k]

I got a ps pulley puller for free. so i went ahead and did it. I also bought the fuel line disconnector. made it all really easy.

now I can't get my damn timing cover off. :mad: All the bolts are out, but it's kicking my ass. I'm just gonna pull the engine and then take the front cover off. much easier. the engines gotta come out anyway.

Pull the engine next weekend. wait for the cam. send it to the machine shop early next week.

wait for heads to come.
wait for bottom end to be done.
put it all back together.

[slvr2000stang]

Did you get the one that is kind of hidden down near the bottom?

[Thor]

Did you get the one that is kind of hidden down near the bottom?

The one behind the oil pump is the one you're talking about, right?

[Justang2k]

yeah, the one you need an allen wrench for? I got that one.

[Thor]

Did you try hitting it with a block of wood and a hammer? Sometimes things just need a little lovin' tap :D

[stylin97]

its held on there with RTV pretty good, take a rubber mallet and try to gently beat it off

[Justang2k]

its held on there with RTV pretty good, take a rubber mallet and try to gently beat it off

beat your own car off! :D

yeah, I took a mallet to it and went to work on it and nothing. got alittle agressive but nothing. so I said screw it, I'll just wait till I pull the engine to get it taken off.

[Justang2k]

Here are some pics of the 4.2L:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01175.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01176.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01177.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01178.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01179.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01180.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01187.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01188.JPG

Parts that came with the 4.2:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01190.JPG

Misc pics of my 3.8 being torn apart:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01216.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01217.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01221.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01223.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01225.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01229.JPG

Pic of the hot sweltering desert where I was doing the tear down. and damn it all, I forgot all my shorts at school. so I was outside doing this in blue jeans! yuck!

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01220.JPG

[pb_milan]

nice pics!!
it brings back memories when i swapped my engine
it looks so similar :)

[Stone]

4.2 + ported heads + 207/215 cam = that thing is gonna be quick.

[AutoBadges.com]

Here are some pics of the 4.2L:


http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01178.JPG



that middle piston cool or is that thing fried? :confused:

[Justang2k]

just oil and gunk on it.

[stylin97]

be sure to paint the block a cool color before you drop it in.

cant you lose that balance shaft as well?

[Justang2k]

be sure to paint the block a cool color before you drop it in.

cant you lose that balance shaft as well?

yeah, maybe not. I'm kinda against painting the block. It's just a quark of mine. If the block is hot tanked then it looks really nice and clean. I like it that way. and besides, with my luck if I painted the block it would start chipping within a year.

The only color I would consider painting the block is black. that would be cool. but it has crossed my mind. I thought about painting the intakes black as well.

I think you can loose the balance shaft, but idle suffers? ahh, might as well keep it in there. it's there for a reason. :D

[Stone]

be sure to paint the block a cool color before you drop it in.

cant you lose that balance shaft as well?

yeah, maybe not. I'm kinda against painting the block. It's just a quark of mine. If the block is hot tanked then it looks really nice and clean. I like it that way. and besides, with my luck if I painted the block it would start chipping within a year.

The only color I would consider painting the block is black. that would be cool. but it has crossed my mind. I thought about painting the intakes black as well.

I think you can loose the balance shaft, but idle suffers? ahh, might as well keep it in there. it's there for a reason. :D

Paint it green :)

I'm killing my balance shaft. Its dead weight i have to spin. I am getting
my rotating assembly balanced so it will already be smooth running.

Gaston
PS-You shouldn't include your sig with every reply in a thread, it takes up too much space.

[justin00v6]

The balance shaft cancels out some vibes that are inherent to the 90* V6 design.

There has been some difference in weight of the balance shaft over the years.

[Stone]

The balance shaft cancels out some vibes that are inherent to the 90* V6 design.

There has been some difference in weight of the balance shaft over the years.

I think those vibes are only at the utmost oem NVH levels, something
none of us with aftermarket mufflers have any concept of. My unshafted
3.8L had no unusual or vibes at 6500rpm.

[justin00v6]

The balance shaft cancels out some vibes that are inherent to the 90* V6 design.

There has been some difference in weight of the balance shaft over the years.

I think those vibes are only at the utmost oem NVH levels, something
none of us with aftermarket mufflers have any concept of. My unshafted
3.8L had no unusual or vibes at 6500rpm.

I've noticed 99+ cars are a lot quieter and smoother at idle than 94-98 cars....on a surface type of level IMO.

[gitman]

94-98 cars also have more agressive cams

[Bloodninja]

94-98 cars also have more agressive cams

But also only have long runners.

[justin00v6]

now that i think about it, the 94-98s are rougher all over the powerband...ever hear one of them scream at a whopping 4k rpms? its a whole different engine noise than 99+

[mikael]

I'll have to remember the 2L bottle trick.
J: why were you trying to take the timing cover off if you have to pull
the motor anyway?
Tanked motors don't always stay clean. Hit it with duplicolor engine
enamel engine primer grey. lots of light coats with ample trying time
(or good old california heat). then more engine enamel of your choice.
stays on great.

stone: possibly bumped CR as well :D

[Justang2k]

I was just trying to get it off. no particular reason. that's why I'm not too upset that it's not coming off. I'll just take it off when I pull the engine Saturday.

I may do the color, not sure. Grey with black intakes may be cool. I want a dark look.

yeah, if I did green it'd have to be the same color as my car. or close anyway. :p

oh and no sig this time. :)

[Justang2k]

got the 3.8 out. it's was pretty easy. Lots of spare room in the engine bay to get that puppy out!

Anyway, I got the heads and stuff off the 3.8. Major problems with the #6 cyl. wow. when I pulled the heads off there was a HUGE pool of oil in the #6 cyl. talking like 2-3 ounces. just sitting there. heads were soaked in oil. the #3 had alittle bit of oil in it too, but not near as much as the #6 cyl.

I've got pics but no way to put them on this computer. gotta wait till I get home tomorrow to get them onto my computer.

[Clint]

got the 3.8 out. it's was pretty easy. Lots of spare room in the engine bay to get that puppy out!

Anyway, I got the heads and stuff off the 3.8. Major problems with the #6 cyl. wow. when I pulled the heads off there was a HUGE pool of oil in the #6 cyl. talking like 2-3 ounces. just sitting there. heads were soaked in oil. the #3 had alittle bit of oil in it too, but not near as much as the #6 cyl.

I've got pics but no way to put them on this computer. gotta wait till I get home tomorrow to get them onto my computer.
it's just spillage from the oil that's in the heads when u loosened bolts/removed heads from the block..

[Justang2k]

normally I'd say that's true. but after looking at the heads and the sparkplug for that cyl, it's obvious there is a crap load of oil drippind down from the valve on the cyl. when I would start it up, it would smoke heavily for the first mintue of so.

and all the other cyls were dry as a bone.

I have pics, that might help.

[Justang2k]

as promised, here are some pics of my 3.8:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01230.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01231.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01232.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01233.JPG

I didn't get a very good pic of the #3... sorry. but it had some oil in it too.

now, I wouldn't think this would just be from the heads coming off. but I may be wrong. I do have a video of the car starting up with this problem and smoking really bad.

here's the vid: 8.8mb:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Reving1.mpg

this is a light start up. normally it's much much worse than this...

[Flex]

Agree that this thing should be quick bro.

[need4mospd]

Amazon Green 2000 5-spd V6 mustangs with ported heads/intakes and a 207/215dur. cam rule! :D :headbang:

[Justang2k]

Hell yeah they do!

but my car is tropic green! :headbang: :p

same color code! :D

[Thor]

Amazon Green 2000 5-spd V6 mustangs with ported heads/intakes and a 207/215dur. cam rule! :D :headbang:

no more than Crystal White 2000 5-speeds :p :evil:

[Justang2k]

Amazon Green 2000 5-spd V6 mustangs with ported heads/intakes and a 207/215dur. cam rule! :D :headbang:

no more than Crystal White 2000 5-speeds :p :evil:

Geniuses pick green cars. :D

[Tjslake00v6]

Amazon Green 2000 5-spd V6 mustangs with ported heads/intakes and a 207/215dur. cam rule! :D :headbang:

no more than Crystal White 2000 5-speeds :p :evil:

Geniuses pick green cars. :D

Agreed :word:
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/779/roushwing1.jpg

[Flex]

Paint the motor Justin. It will look crappy if it starts rusting dude. A green on green thing could work.

[Justang2k]

I got some stuff from Mikael over the past couple days. I still haven't gotten the heads, but they should be arriving soon. The shortblock is ready and in my Dad's pickup ready to go to the machine shop. He's gonna stop by there on his lunch break and drop the engine off. They are gonna basically check the engine over, cyls, bearings and what not. and they are gonna install the cam. Then I need the heads... and then the chip; which I'm finding it's hard to get ahold of Pete or anybody to check the status... must be busy. Hopefully the engine is done this next week. Then it just takes me getting the heads and shit on, and getting the engine back in the car. Maybe the 4th of July weekend, maybe the weekend after that.

Here are some pictures I took last night. enjoy:

Lower intake
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01236.JPG
207/215 .493/.495 112lca cam - went with less lift 'cause I have 1.8rr's and 112lca for better idle and possible SC down the road.
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01238.JPG
Upper Intake
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01239.JPG
Ported and halfshafted TB
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01242.JPG
4.2L engine ready to go to the Machine shop today.
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01243.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01245.JPG
Intakes put together.... and yes, I like spacers. :word: but please, no comments... keep the thread on track. :D
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01246.JPG

[Flex]

Justin, is that final lift before 1.8's or after? Did Mik grind that custom for you or is that a different cam?

[Justang2k]

Justin, is that final lift before 1.8's or after? Did Mik grind that custom for you or is that a different cam?

Those specs are for 1.73's. My total lift will be .513/.515. This is actually the single port cam. The only difference in the cams is about .012 more lift on the intake side. So the split port cams lift is .505/.495 with 1.73's.

[stang2nv95]

sweet!!! I cant wait to start on mine...as soon as I get the beater running(hopefully in a couple weeks max) and get married(more $$ for the stang :evil: ) hehe

[Justang2k]

arrgggg. the waiting sucks. The machine shop has the 4.2 now. they're looking it over making sure it's cool, ie cyls, bearings, what not. gonna do new rings and bearings. Some of you told me just to put it in the car without looking it over. but the engine was exposed for so long, and it was so dirty, I had to have it looked at. anyway, should be a week. Heads will be here Tuesday. If I can gather some friends the 4th of July weekend, I may have it done by then.

Gotta question though:
I'm still waiting on my Fordchip. Think it would be safe to start the car without the fordchip? 4.2, ported heads/intakes, 207 cam, #24 injectors...

[Justang2k]

got the heads.
everything is ready to go.
Engine should be done Monday sometime.
May take Tuesday off to start installing it.
Should be done by next weekend!

well, depending on fordchip... :(
still don't know if I can start the car without the chip or not.

[Justang2k]

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01277.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01278.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01279.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01280.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01281.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01282.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01283.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01284.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01285.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01286.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01287.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01288.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01289.JPG

[Flex]

Justin are those the 96 style header on there?

[mikael]

Justin are those the 96 style header on there?

No, they have the smog pump bung on the front primaries.

[JD]

Justin are those the 96 style header on there?

They look like the MAC

[Flex]

JD,
You are right (you too Mik) I remember that Justin does have the MAC's.

[Thor]

Damn that looks good! Got any close up pics of the ports on the heads, both intake and exhaust?

[Justang2k]

yeah, they are macs. GTR had a problem installing them originally. Then I had a problem taking the driver side intermediate pipe off when I was taking the engine out. SO when I put the driver side header on I noticed the flange was practically hitting the block. no wonder it was a bitch to get on and off. So I to a grinder to the block and hacked some of it away. Now it should fit fine... and I really didn't take off too much block, so it should still be very strong.

here's a picture:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01279.JPG[/img]

[Flex]

Looks good so far man. I see you didn't paint the block. When do you figure it will be back in?

[Justang2k]

Yeah, I just don't like painting the block. I don't know why, it's just not me. Don't really like the way it looks.

Tomorrow, I'm going home and putting the flywheel and clutch on. then it should be in tomorrow night around 10pm. then... I'll do the rest of the installation Saturday. I'm hoping fordchip sends the chip tomorrow via next day mail (I paid extra for that).

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

[AutoBadges.com]

really hope you are putting in a new clutch with all the power you will be running. Would be very very simple to install right now...and will be much worth it in the long run. I am getting the Spec Stage II clutch in mine...whenever the hell its up and running! :banghead:

[pete]

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

Who are you?

[Justang2k]

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

Who are you?

ha ha. kidding right? :confused: :(

FC-139 is my chip.

[pete]

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

Who are you?

ha ha. kidding right? :confused: :(

FC-139 is my chip.

No I'm not kidding. I deal in real names....I had no idea you were Justin Agee or FC-139.

Justang2K doesn't tell me much.

[Justang2k]

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

Who are you?

ha ha. kidding right? :confused: :(

FC-139 is my chip.

No I'm not kidding. I deal in real names....I had no idea you were Justin Agee or FC-139.

Justang2K doesn't tell me much.


no biggie. doesn't really matter....
all that matters to me is getting my chip before I start the car.

[RGR]

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

Who are you?

ha ha. kidding right? :confused: :(

FC-139 is my chip.

No I'm not kidding. I deal in real names....I had no idea you were Justin Agee or FC-139.

Justang2K doesn't tell me much.



heh, I get this alot Pete, but usually worse, like
Joe Blow expects me to remember he is
"AwesomeStang9000" or whatever...

I'm sure Pete has several things going at once Justin :)

[Justang2k]

So *keeps fingers crossed* I'm hoping to have the car running this weekend!
IF forchip gets me the chip.

Who are you?

ha ha. kidding right? :confused: :(

FC-139 is my chip.

No I'm not kidding. I deal in real names....I had no idea you were Justin Agee or FC-139.

Justang2K doesn't tell me much.



heh, I get this alot Pete, but usually worse, like
Joe Blow expects me to remember he is
"AwesomeStang9000" or whatever...

I'm sure Pete has several things going at once Justin :)

yeah, it was alittle selfish of me to think he has been reading all my posts and knew that I was Justin Agee that sent in chip 139. oh well, live and learn alittle bit more! :D I assumed.. and you know what happens when you do that! :o

[RGR]

:)

[Justang2k]

I got the engine in, and most of the stuff under the car done. I have to make sure the connections are connected and I'm done under the car. I gotta put the intakes and accessories on. I'll probably work on it for a little bit tomorrow, and then finish it up Sunday.

here are some pics I took tonight:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01291.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01292.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01293.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01294.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01295.JPG
http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01296.JPG[/img]

[RGR]

I got the engine in, and most of the stuff under the car done. I have to make sure the connections are connected and I'm done under the car. I gotta put the intakes and accessories on. I'll probably work on it for a little bit tomorrow, and then finish it up Sunday.

here are some pics I took tonight:

http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/DSC01291.JPG


Whoozatt scary dood in where the motor goes :eek: :eek: ???

[Flex]

LOL. I was thinking that exact same thing bro. You beat me to the punch.

Looking good Justin.

[Justang2k]

Looking good Justin.

FLEX! I didn't know you swung that way! :eek: get off my nuts! :D

-----------------------------

man I'm so tired. here it is noon and I have to start working on the car again. I didn't go to sleep till like 5am lastnight. I'm probably only gonna get to work on this for like 4 hours today. then maybe some more tomorrow morning and afternoon. It should be done by tomorrow!

[Justang2k]

about starting the car without the Fordchip. Should I keep the 21's in for now till I get the chip? or should I just throw the 24's in and let it run alittle rich till I get the chip. I know the cam will make it run lean, so the added fuel might help a bit.

[Flex]

You sick F*#k. LOL I meant the motor. Last time I saw something that ugly, I woke up from a nightmare.LOL

Taking redstang's situation as an example, you may be able to run the 21's until the chip is done. Maybe a tuner could give you a better idea.

[RGR]

207/215, 4.2, P&P intakes, heads, ...

What about the shortblock? Bored out?
Forged pistons? Rods? Balanced? Just
curious, and wondering about boost later :D

[Justang2k]

heads milled .030.
stock bottom end.
new rings and bearings

no immediate plans for a supercharger. gonna keep in n/a for a good daily driver.

[RGR]

Prob. about 9.7 compression, my guess.

Not over-bored?

[Justang2k]

nope, no overbore. no need to. figured it would be a better daily driver if I didn't mess with too much in the bottom end. and that's what I'm really going for. nice daily driver with gobbs of torque.

[Flex]

Justin,
When will you be able to do a dyno tune?

[Justang2k]

whenever Fordchip comes to cali again. I really want the tune! that way my car will be DONE! well with that part of the modding! :D

[Justang2k]

almost done. still gotta put the accessories on. I almost had it in, but found that I lost like 3 bolts. so I made a trip to the hardware store. :(

it's fricking 119* out! I'm soo hot. taking a break.
I should have it running in about 2 hours. *fingers crossed*.

I'll post pics later. maybe even a sound clip of how it sounds... ;)

J

[Talleywacker]

check your PM on my site justin... need to know where to send that money I want em ;)

[Justang2k]

the car runs. but has problems.

problems:

1. leaks coolant from what appears to be the heater hose on the back of the lower intake.
2. lots of valve train noise
3. I musta forgot to connect the clutch cable when I was dicking with putting the TO bearing on. so I have no clutch.
4. Did I mention lots of valve train noise? lots. lots of ticking.
5. Seems like it has a missfire problem. kinda has a miss to the idle. not the cam. you can hear it in the exhaust too. it also don't rev up too fast. maybe like a cyl not firing. but the plugs and all that are in an connected correctly.
6. Kinda hear a knock. maybe a ping. sometimes it's a knock for sure, then other times it's more of a ping. marbles in a can. I only hear it at idle. after that the valve train nose takes over. I've only had the car to 3k rpm. could this knock/ping be due to the computer being for a 3.8 when there is a 4.2 in it? oh and I don't have my chip. :( I just decided to start it without it. :eek: no driving it though!

btw, the cam was VERY lopey the first 20 seconds. then it smoothed out and is fine now. other than the shake of the engine... which may or may not be the miss, it's a very very mild cam. I like it!

other cool thing is my exhaust sounds pretty dang deep. lots better. I like it. but you can hear the miss in the exhaust.

smoking like a bitch. gotta get those new rings to seat. :D kinda stopped smoking alittle bit after the first 5 minutes, but still does it a little bit.

not gonna start it again till I have the chip and get the leak and clutch fixed. then I'll see about the valvetrain noise. My dad things it might be an injector ticking really loud. but I think it's more rocker.

here's the deal with the rockers. The heads SHOULD be milled .030. but I need shims so the rocker bolts don't bottom out on the hole. then add the smaller based circle cam, and logically it should be ok... since I ran the rr's with shims before this. but if the heads were not milled, then I'm asking a lot of my lifters. I should probably get the right size bolts....... Mik said he might send some to me, but didn't so I just kept these ones in it.

[Justang2k]

coolant is coming from the lower intake. it's leaking at at the border of where the intake meets the head around cyl #2. WTF?

this caused by milling the heads? :(
****, I don't know what to do? guess take the lower off. :rolleyes:

[Justang2k]

I think I might have done a bone head thing and put the intake gaskets on the wrong sides. :eek:

I started to take it apart tonight and said **** it. I'm tired. I'm just gonna take it easy for the rest of my weekend!

nobody has any answers?
suggestions?
anything?
:confused:

[stangin99]

check the gaskets. Thatd be first thing Id say. I dont know what to say about the miss or knock. Other than to double and triple check all your connections.

gj so far. Your my inspiration for a 4.2 swap :word:

[Flex]

Justin, If the heads were shaved .030, did you shave the lower Intake to match? Any more than .01 requires the Intake be milled as well or there will be a huge port and water jacket mismatch. May be what is causing your leak and your miss.

[Justang2k]

I did some looking around last night. and it looks like I may have put the intake gaskets on the wrong side. if so, then I'll change them and hopefully that'll slove my problem.

the gaskets are huge rubber things, I don't see how .030 would matter with these gaskets. but I have always heard that with milling heads.

you can mill the intakes right? it'd be .015 on each side? or does it work that way?

[Flex]

No there is actually a formula. You have to mill more of the Intakes but yes they can be done. We had to do it on my bro's 89. Milled 60 off the heads and I think close to that off each side of the Intake.

It does make a difference. All that porting work and then you have 1 mm or more mismatch at the Intake to head for major flow disruption.

[gitman]

got those RR's torque'd right?

[Justang2k]

I thought I torqued them correctly. well I'm pretty sure I did. don't know whats up. maybe it's the shims messing it all up. I think Mik's sending me a set of rocker bolts. so I'll go through and redo them with shorter rocker bolts and no shims.

man, I don't have the money to pay for milling the intakes. they don't seem to be off much. The bolt holes line up almost perfectly. I set the bolt in there and they fall in. only like 1 or 2 of them are alittle tight.

[TuxMask-Andy]

how many ft pounds you torqued the heads?

[Justang2k]

I forget the exact specs, but it was three stage. it was like 18lbs then 36lbs then 180* more. that's what the hayes manual said to do.

[Justang2k]

car is on the road but it's falling flat on it's face! doesn't feel faster, but it runs like shit!

It intake backfires if you try to rev it from a low rpm too quickly.
when you punch it it makes this *fluff fluff fluff* sound. almost like it's missing somewhere. don't know where though.
Idles really rough. it will almost die when you let it go back down to idle. then it jumps up to over 1krpm and then falls to 750 where it stays. the engine bounces all over the place at idle.

went back to 21's because I didn't have my fordchip yet. didn't figure it would make enough power to max them out at this point in time.
adjusted the cam positioning sensor as best I could while it was at idle.
put shorter rocker bolts in and lost the shims and there is very little valvetrain noise now. but you can her the injectors. :eek:

so, is this just the car needing the chip? I don't have the chip, waiting on it to come in.

anything else you guys can think of?

[Justang2k]

I'll post sound clips tonight. along with a video of the engine at idle.

anything else I should video?

[AutoBadges.com]

i want to know why you are even driving that around without the damn fordchip justin? do you expect it to run great w/o the chip with a 4.2 block in there? your going to end up busting up some more shit and regret it in the long run. Just wait for the chip, swap it and then see whats up.

[Flex]

Agree with Eric, but you have more problems than just the chip.

[Lunchbox]

anything else you guys can think of?
Yea. Set up the car for the chip that will be coming, then wait. Not worth
ruining all your work and money.

[Justang2k]

yeah, car is sitting right now. not driving it till I get my chip.

I put the 21's in because I thought it would be safer than the 24's for the 15 mile drive back to my house. I've been working on it out at my dad's.

I'm uploading the video's as I type. should be up in a little bit....

Flex: what other problems do you think I have?

[Flex]

Backfiring through the Intakes. Your valve timing is off, or your vavles are hung open. Probably the reason for the crappy idle.

[Justang2k]

Backfiring through the Intakes. Your valve timing is off, or your vavles are hung open. Probably the reason for the crappy idle.

I don't have the cam positioning sensor in the proper alignment. think that could be a problem?

cam and crank was done by a machine shop. so I assume the vavle timing is on.

--------------------------

I gotta question about spark timing. what determines when it will spark? could my spark be off?

[Justang2k]

Startup, Rev, Idle (http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/Startup422.WMV)

Engine idle clip #1 (http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/Idle42.mpg)

Engine idle clip #2 (http://www.3.8mustang.com/~justang/Engine/Idle422.mpg)

[Justang2k]

ok, went out and adjusted the cam sensor. I did it one way and it made the idle worse. did it the other way and it seemed to be better, but when I gave it some gas it popped in the intake. :eek: So I fiddled around with it and got it to idle nice and not pop. I went to park it across the street (where it should sit till fordchip comes) and it seemed be be nicer. So I think it should be pretty close to what it's supposed to be.

one other thing. how would I know if valves were staying open? shouldn't the hydraulic lifters account for that and compress some?
Mik told me the 207 cam doesn't need lifters. but something bigger will. so I'd imagine it's on the edge of what the lifters can handle. Well, I got that cam so I should be cool. but the heads are milled .030. so that should take them down a little bit. I would still think the lifters are cool with that. right? or no?

what else would cause the valves to hang open?

[Flex]

I don't understand what you mean when you say a bigger cam would need lifters. The hydraulic action of the oil system pumps the lifters up to act like a solid when the engine is running. If your pushrods are too long, the valves will not be able to seat and when the cylinder fires, gases will be forced back up into the intake resulting in a backfire. Bad valve timing will in essence result in the same situation. Sounds like the cam sensor is off. I think it has to be at 52 degress.

[Justang2k]

bigger cam = more grind = smaller base circle

that's what I meant. 'cause any bigger and the base circle would have been smaller and I would have needed new pushrods.

I guess instead of me thinking out loud, I'll just ask. With heads milled .030, the 207 cam, should I need different pushrods?
btw, I have stock pushrods.

so you think this may be the cam sensor? that would cause the intake pop?

how is the spark timing determined via the computer? is it through the crank and cam sensors? or what?

I need the fordchip. then I'll know what's going on. the car just feels a soggy when I give it gas.

[SteveC]

You sure you have the spark plugs in the right order? That will cause those "pops".

[justin00v6]

You sure you have the spark plugs in the right order? That will cause those "pops".

yeah, along with overheating

i finally got a clue with rics car when he was cranking it over and i watched the pullies spin backwards for a second

one bank had the plug wire order flipped

[Flex]

I think he said he already check the plugs. Worth another look though. Mik should be answering your question Justin but I am sure your pushrods should be shorter. Check how much pre-load you have.

[RGR]

cam _could_ use a longer PR by about .020
then surfacing the heads .030 makes for a .010
shorter PR, but the lifter has .060 range, it should be OK.
Just used rough numbers on the cam, most are 20 thou.

[Flex]

Rob,
You sure about those numbers? We shaved the heads .06 and with a .07 shorter pushrod and still had to shim the rockers to make it work.

[RGR]

Rob,
You sure about those numbers? We shaved the heads .06 and with a .07 shorter pushrod and still had to shim the rockers to make it work.


reground cam = Longer PR
surfaced heads = shorter PR

It always works like this w.stock rockers

[Justang2k]

Started it up and put my hand on the exhaust pipe. It would push my hand out for a couple pulses, then SUCK it in. The exhaust has this push/pull thing going on! :eek: shit.

Possibly bent valve...?

We don't know what happened, but Mik is helping me a lot! Possibly new heads very fast so I can get my car on the road! He really stands behind his work! I'm really happy with him. He's probably the best person for customer service! Mik ROCKS!

[Justang2k]

did a compresson test to see if I could tell anything.

cyls:
1 ----- 170
2 ----- 165
3 ----- 165
4 ----- 170
5 ----- 140 then 150, then added oil and it was 145. so it's not the rings.
6 ----- 175

the #5 was low. BUT the new engine has less than 25 miles on it. rings still could be in the process of seating.

I don't know what happened, but it really runs good now. it still has a fluff fluff fluff sound to the exhaust, but it revs alot faster and I drove it and it really pulls.

now, could it be that I had a spark plug wire on wrong AND a valve haning open on the #5 cyl? Then tonight when doing the compression test I fixed the spark plug but there is a valve still hanging open? maybe I'll do another video tonight.

I really need help....

[Justang2k]

oh and I'm having a problem finding an air compressor to do the leak down tester.

[Justang2k]

had a friend listen to it and he says it sounded like the valve isn't seated correctly, or there is a slight bend in the valve. I value his opinion as he's built many many engines. I just happened to catch him at work. :D

I let him listen to it with a stethecope, and he said it was one or the other. but while it was idling I got a CEL. :(

damn. looks like the heads are coming off.

[Justang2k]

ok, I took the valve cover off and put the #5 cyl at TDC on the compression stroke. both of the pushrods spin. I don't know how hard it should be to spin them, so it's hard to say if it's loose or tight. they don't move up and down or side to side. I spin them and you can tell there is alittle tension on them, but I can spin them fairly freely... a catch here or there, but nothing major.

so, is that normal? :confused:

I seem to be alone in here... :(

[Clemens9]

ok, I took the valve cover off and put the #5 cyl at TDC on the compression stroke. both of the pushrods spin. I don't know how hard it should be to spin them, so it's hard to say if it's loose or tight. they don't move up and down or side to side. I spin them and you can tell there is alittle tension on them, but I can spin them fairly freely... a catch here or there, but nothing major.

so, is that normal? :confused:

I seem to be alone in here... :(

Basically, you should be able to turn them, but they should have no up and down motion at all, so you are correct about that.

You did the hand thing you said. Put a piece of paper on the exhaust pipe and you will see it really well. The thing about that is it will show any type of misfire. I had a bad injector, and it showed up like that, and everyone told me it was a bent valve.

Have you tried a vacuum gauge? A vacuum gauge will show a valve problem because the gauge will jump up and down very quickly at idle. I overshimmed my rockers once, and i was pulling about 8 in/hg of vacuum instead of my normal 16, and the needle was jumping up and down a lot. 3 Pages is too mucn for me to read whether you have tried this or not :)

Good luck, and catch me on AIM at Clemmens91 if you need help when no one else is around. Ive dealt with a lot of problems similar to this, and made enough stupid mistakes to find out what causes them.

[Justang2k]

yeah, I started it up after I did the compression test and it was fine. no sucking. I wonder if having the sparkplug wires on wrong would cause that. still runs like crap though. I just didn't notice the pushing as much.

Also, I'm looking at the engine and the pushrod is a lot closer to the wall of the head than the rest. I don't have my complete set of tools right not, so I can't take the rocker off to see if the pushrod has been scuffing. I'll do that tomorrow.

I'll also do the vacum thing. what vacume line do I use on the car?

I'm gonna get a compressor tomorrow and do a leak down test with the rockers off to see what's going on. hopefully it's something easy, not the heads.......... ugghhhhhhh.

thanks for the input...

[Clemens9]

Any vacuum line will work. Just pick up a gauge from the autoparts store and T into any existing line.

[Justang2k]

are scuff marks on the pushrods normal? I have them on my #5 intake pushrod.

[Justang2k]

did the leak down test. didn't think I heard anything. then the engine moved from the compressed air in the cyl. then I thought I could hear alittle bit of air through the intakes.

so I said **** it I'm putting it back together. I did. Put the chip in and everything and started right up. bam! ran like a ****ing champ! took it out for a ride, fast as hell! could barely keep the tires from constantly breaking loose from a start. Awesome! The idle was alittle bit high but thought that could be adjusted.

I did the vacum test before I went on my first ride. seemed to sit right at 15 while idling. no bouncing at all!

take it home. turn it off. Then my grandpa asks to hear it. I try to start it and nothing. it wouldn't start. then I try again. it finally starts. fluff fluff fluff again!!!!!!!! runs like shit!

now what the **** is going on? I'm sooo confused!!!!!!!!! And kinda tired of this sshit!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Justang2k]

ok, went and did a vacume test and it all looked good.

THEN I shut it down and reset the computer and tried it without the chip. still runs shitty!

then I decided to check to see if the injector plugs were plugged in.

guess, what? they weren't. doh.

pluged the #3 cyl injector in and it fired right up!

I'll keep you updated.

[Flex]

Maybe that part of the harness is damaged allowing it to keep unhooking dude.

[Justang2k]

yeah, I damaged the plastic plugs that hold it on. when I pushed them in they snapped. so none of them have the little snap shit.

I'm just gonna ghetto rig it and zip tie them to the injector. :eek: lol. I'm not paying for new clips!

The car runs like a champ. I'm still not sure about the valves though. there is no sputter anymore. I'll give it a while and see.

plastic injectors plugs is what I'm talking about. calling them the clip is the wrong terminology.