Land Of the Brave! Project Garrett S197 T04Z-V6!

[MSP]

Installation in Progress!

[OrangeV6F150]

Dayum.Gonna use nitrous to spool it?

[MSP]

Originally Posted by OrangeV6F150

Dayum.Gonna use nitrous to spool it?

LOL! Man, without oil in it cold with a hand spin the wheel spins pretty fast for quite a while.. I'm sure once I get some hot oil in there, and use the engine to blow on it alittle it will spool!!

In fact, I am worried that it may boost too quickly at the low rpms.. I cant believe how these dual ball bearings are so spin friendly.. LOL!!

I may have to purchase a bigger turbine housing later to keep it street friendly.. I am running a bypass valve for recirculation, so I hope that helps some...

[MSP]

Just for the record though, the .70 A/R turbine starts to spool at 10lbs/min, and spool flatlines to the wastegate set boost pressure at 20lbs/min..

With 245 cubic inches 10lbs/min is 2000RPM @ 14.7 Atmospheric...

This means, I should see boost easily in 1st gear..

[MSP]

Actually, its a 76 trim turbine wheel trim, using a .70 A/R turbine housing, so the spool flatline is less than 20lbs/min.. Somehwere between 15-18lbs/min of exhaust airflow..

So she will be in full swing right around 2500RPM-2700RPM where she will flatline to the set wastegate boost pressure..

[quik67mustang]

damn that things huge! nice work! we definitly need to meet up one of these days soon, theres only 3 turboed 6ers in norcal!

[MSP]

Originally Posted by quik67mustang

damn that things huge! nice work! we definitly need to meet up one of these days soon, theres only 3 turboed 6ers in norcal!

We'll hook up at Foxworthy to get some 100 octane on me.. I'll pump about 2 gallons into your car for living close to me! LOL!

Its on quick67mustang! I hope you know a thing or two about the track so you can teach me the ins and outs! Maybe Andy will come and bring the Viper!! LOL!

[GT-EATER]

Looking good , someone is finally putting a decent size turbo on a 4.0 .

[dapack69]

I can't see the pics, damn websense.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Looking good , someone is finally putting a decent size turbo on a 4.0 .

You know it means a tremendous amount to me to get your approval GT-EATER! You have always supported and believed in me, when everyone doubted.. Thank you my friend!

Now to this turbo!! People in Australia are running this particular turbo to 800HP!! Its specd at 700-750RWHP, but is popular over seas for its ability to get to 800HP.. So although its specs say its rated at 75lbs/min, it atually can do more...

This turbo is an HKS- custom spec turbo which is made by Garrett.. Its the same turbo HKS uses and makes 800HP!

http://www.modyourcar.com.au/product...oducts_id=3659

http://www.horsepowerinabox.com/hpiab2/prod382.htm

Here is the HKS version of the turbo!

http://www.nengun.com/hks/turbine-t04z

So I think I did good to get the .70 A/R turbine to start out.. Since it is a T4, and it has a big turbine wheel, back pressure shouldn't be too bad..

[MSP]

Wait hold on GT-EATER! I'm not done yet!

This turbo may be a 67mm turbo, but it will flow toe-to-toe with a T70, and spool quicker!

Also, the compressor housing goes into the shop next week for a full port and polish job!

I want all the air sucked into the compressor blades to feel like it is riding on silk sheets! All the way up until the point that its shoved into the intake, and exploded just above my pistons!

Lastly, this turbo has its own unique sound! Only produced by the T04Z.. They call it the screamer! So expect a sound not found in S197 Turbo Mustangs! I promise videos to follow..

[crazychrissix]

best of luck bro! I wanna see what kind of numbers that puts down!

[MustangAndy]

I really can't wait to see how this project turns out! I also wish I knew more about turbos... I have a feeling though that when I finally can afford my own this is the thing to get.

[Rygen]

Good luck. This should be interesting.

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Looking good , someone is finally putting a decent size turbo on a 4.0 .

Define "decent", I'm able to run 11.7's at 13lbs on my turbo.

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by Rygen

Define "decent", I'm able to run 11.7's at 13lbs on my turbo.

With Nitrous though right? not just turbo.

[fazm]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

With Nitrous though right? not just turbo.

no he went 11s with just the turbo, he went 10s with the turbo and nitrous.

mine went 12.03 @ 12lbs in 100+ degree weather, at a 1200ft + track.

its a good sized turbo, but not a 10 sec turbo only turbo

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by fazm

no he went 11s with just the turbo, he went 10s with the turbo and nitrous.

mine went 12.03 @ 12lbs in 100+ degree weather, at a 1200ft + track.

its a good sized turbo, but not a 10 sec turbo only turbo

I have been waiting for someone to try a bigger turbo on these set ups , the 4.0 seems to be a good solid engine , you guys seem to run some good times so I'm curious as to what a bigger turbo will do on the top end .

[matthewneuharth]

Originally Posted by MSP

Now to this turbo!! People in Australia are running this particular turbo to 800HP!! Its specd at 700-750RWHP, but is popular over seas for its ability to get to 800HP.. So although its specs say its rated at 75lbs/min, it atually can do more..

75lbs/min is rated at about 750-800Flywheel hp. normally 10lbs/min is good for 100hp.

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

With Nitrous though right? not just turbo.

nope, boost only. I think I can get 10's with 20lbs of boost and race gas. there may come a day when I go bigger turbo, but I have some work to do before I hit that cross road.

Of course I'm running a forged bottom end.

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

I have been waiting for someone to try a bigger turbo on these set ups , the 4.0 seems to be a good solid engine , you guys seem to run some good times so I'm curious as to what a bigger turbo will do on the top end .

I'm sure you will see it soon enough. Though I'm not sure I will be the one to do it.

[fazm]

I've been in the market for a t70 style turbo. just not sure what i want to go with.

im nowhere near maxing the current one out, but been lookin at some compressor maps, and starting at 17psi its headed towards the less efficient area... and by the time it reaches the boost levels i want, its off the map.

for the average person (hah... average) the pt-61 is just fine.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by fazm

I've been in the market for a t70 style turbo. just not sure what i want to go with.

im nowhere near maxing the current one out, but been lookin at some compressor maps, and starting at 17psi its headed towards the less efficient area... and by the time it reaches the boost levels i want, its off the map.

for the average person (hah... average) the pt-61 is just fine.

Yeah no doubt the PT61 is a great turbo for the stock 4.0.. Obviously by your great numbers with the turbo.. The higher compression is able to make great power with less boost..

For the forged engines like Rygen's and Army's however, they are not able to actually take advantage of the cams and heads, along with the increased strength of the bottom end, because after 15psi, the turbo starts to lose a good amount of efficiency and starts heating up the boost, thus lowering the effectiveness per psi of boost..

But there is no doubt that for a stock engine which will run anywhere from 7-12psi its almost a perfect turbo..

I also think the SOHC 4.0 itself is very efficient at making power in stock trim.. So given the right tools, it could make good power with less boost if a bigger turbo was used..

We'll find out soon I guess..

For sure Rygen would benefit big time by increasing turbo size.. However I understand he is just waiting on a tranny upgrade before he wants more boost..

My system is going to start out with water and water/meth injection from day one.. So it will be interesting to see the effect water has on spooling and HP based on cooler combustion temps, with the benefit of slightly advanced timing..

Then there is the meth which can allow for an increase of boost based on the octane increase... So I should be keeping the combustion temps really cool up around 5000rpm-6000rpm, which will help in top end HP..

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by MSP

Yeah no doubt the PT61 is a great turbo for the stock 4.0.. Obviously by your great numbers with the turbo.. The higher compression is able to make great power with less boost..

For the forged engines like Rygen's and Army's however, they are not able to actually take advantage of the cams and heads, along with the increased strength of the bottom end, because after 15psi, the turbo starts to lose a good amount of efficiency and starts heating up the boost, thus lowering the effectiveness per psi of boost..

But there is no doubt that for a stock engine which will run anywhere from 7-12psi its almost a perfect turbo..

I also think the SOHC 4.0 itself is very efficient at making power in stock trim.. So given the right tools, it could make good power with less boost if a bigger turbo was used..

We'll find out soon I guess..

For sure Rygen would benefit big time by increasing turbo size.. However I understand he is just waiting on a tranny upgrade before he wants more boost..

My system is going to start out with water and water/meth injection from day one.. So it will be interesting to see the effect water has on spooling and HP based on cooler combustion temps, with the benefit of slightly advanced timing..

Then there is the meth which can allow for an increase of boost based on the octane increase... So I should be keeping the combustion temps really cool up around 5000rpm-6000rpm, which will help in top end HP..

I would chat with Justin about the water meth , I don't see it helping you much unless you have a very high intake temps , if thats the case you need a better intercooler . Justin has done some testing with the water meth so i'm sure he can give you some hard dyno numbers to chew on.

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

if thats the case you need a better intercooler .

I'd have to agree with this. On my setup, at 20lbs, PH and I have discussed a larger intercooler, because at this level...temps have finally started to creep up. Its safe, but not where we would like them to be. Its on my to do list after the cage and tranny. I've never considered going to a larger turbo, if I go hunting for 9's (and people that know me say its a matter of when), I will ask Mike about the one of the GT kit. It's 67mm I believe. I'm not sure going to 70 or more would be friendly on the low end with my CR and cams.

@MSP,

Are you running the stock fuel pump? You may want to rewire your stocker and get a boost a pump....and possibly some larger injectors if you are going after some big numbers. Or just get GT500 pump, its drop and insert from what I hear. When Buckman was on the juice and 15psi, he had to go with the rewire and boost a pump....I'm guessing you will be at that power level as well at least.

My heads and cams are showing around a 50-70 bump, I'm not sure if there is more to be had from them to be honest. It's a nice upgrade, but with these cams, and my 8-8-1 CR pistons, it makes launching the car a bit more involved.

If you go with a larger intercooler, and the meth, you could even create a race tune and advance the timing a bit. I would also shim your valve springs to help with valve float.

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by Rygen

I'd have to agree with this. On my setup, at 20lbs, PH and I have discussed a larger intercooler, because at this level...temps have finally started to creep up. Its safe, but not where we would like them to be. Its on my to do list after the cage and tranny. I've never considered going to a larger turbo, if I go hunting for 9's (and people that know me say its a matter of when), I will ask Mike about the one of the GT kit. It's 67mm I believe. I'm not sure going to 70 or more would be friendly on the low end with my CR and cams.

@MSP,

Are you running the stock fuel pump? You may want to rewire your stocker and get a boost a pump....and possibly some larger injectors if you are going after some big numbers. Or just get GT500 pump, its drop and insert from what I hear. When Buckman was on the juice and 15psi, he had to go with the rewire and boost a pump....I'm guessing you will be at that power level as well at least.

My heads and cams are showing around a 50-70 bump, I'm not sure if there is more to be had from them to be honest. It's a nice upgrade, but with these cams, and my 8-8-1 CR pistons, it makes launching the car a bit more involved.

If you go with a larger intercooler, and the meth, you could even create a race tune and advance the timing a bit. I would also shim your valve springs to help with valve float.

If his intakes temps are running that high , and he gets a better intercooler I bet he won't benifit from the water meth . I also don't think his set up will have the back pressure problem causeing the valve float If he does I would get better springs . Are you guys still running the stock cats because thats a pretty bad restriction on the exhaust .

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

If his intakes temps are running that high , and he gets a better intercooler I bet he won't benifit from the water meth . I also don't think his set up will have the back pressure problem causeing the valve float If he does I would get better springs . Are you guys still running the stock cats because thats a pretty bad restriction on the exhaust .

With a turbo, on the 4.0 with 11psi or more, you get the valve float and roughly a 20hp loss at around 5500 rpm ish regardless of exhaust setup. Trust me, I've been through the trials. First I had the high flow cat that comes with the Powerhouse turbo kit, and now I'm not running a cat on my setup and headers. At that time (11psi), I went with the valve shimming.

I'm running ported and polished heads with stronger valve springs. You have to do porting to get the valve springs to work on the 4.0 as there are no stronger stock replacement valve springs for our cars.

Shimming the valves also is an issue if you are running the non-stock cam as we found out. You need the stronger valve spring to support the lobe on the regrind cam.

For Msp, depending on his goals, I think he will need to shim the valve springs at the very least. The stock cam is actually pretty good on our cars, and something I probably wouldn't bother with the next time around if I had to do it all over again.

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

If his intakes temps are running that high , and he gets a better intercooler I bet he won't benifit from the water meth .

I agree. I personally wouldn't be running meth for its cooling properties on an intercooled application, but I would use it to advance the timing for a race tune.

[MSP]

My intake temps are awesome! My intercooler is doing a great job..
My plan to incorporate water injection into this particular system was a plan from day one.. Not because my intake temps are high. The water aspect is just for daily driving maintenance..

I'll be starting this project off once again at 6-9psi.. We will have a better idea of how things are going to go after the first dyno session..

Also the meth is for increasing the octane level to race gas levels.. Alot of people in my area use it, cause we only have 91 octane gasoline..

[dapack69]

To me water meth is just a band aid, but what do I know.

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by MSP

My intake temps are awesome! My intercooler is doing a great job..
My plan to incorporate water injection into this particular system was a plan from day one.. Not because my intake temps are high. The water aspect is just for daily driving maintenance..

I'll be starting this project off once again at 6-9psi.. We will have a better idea of how things are going to go after the first dyno session..

Also the meth is for increasing the octane level to race gas levels.. Alot of people in my area use it, cause we only have 91 octane gasoline..

I can't remember, what kind of intercooler are you running. I think you went with an afco unit? I remember the first time you took on the meth project, using it to deal with the fact that you cant get 93oct where you are.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by Rygen

I can't remember, what kind of intercooler are you running. I think you went with an afco unit? I remember the first time you took on the meth project, using it to deal with the fact that you cant get 93oct where you are.

Yeah, I have a new intercooler since the twin project!

I'm hard at work now! Gettin everything lined up with my hammer! LOL!

Man the hammer is one of the best tools since sliced bread! I got it all lined up and spaced out for the compressor housing..

I'll throw a couple bolts onto the compressor and post some more pics in a bit!! Its hot, and I'm installing a T04Z! LOL!

It looks sweet with the compressor guys! Stand by!!

[MSP]

Still have a long road to travel!

[MSP]

Things left to do before 1st startup!

1. Change oil

2. New water coolant

3. Design Pull through MAF with Recirculation points with PCV input

4. Connect compressor to intercooler

5. Install water/meth injection bungs.

6. Get Compressor housing Ported and Polished inside and outside

7. Install Chrome turbine heatshield..

Thats pretty much it.. Then I can start it and start tweaking the tune..

[Buckman]

Wow, I missed this thread!
Very nice, you are moving along fast

Can't wait to see the #'s you put down, she is gonna be a beast.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by Buckman

Wow, I missed this thread!
Very nice, you are moving along fast

Can't wait to see the #'s you put down, she is gonna be a beast.

Welcome to the thread Buckman!! Your more than welcome to stop by anytime and check out my progress.. I'm done working on it today! Gonna relax and enjoy the weekend...

I'll get back on it starting on Monday... I got the most difficult part all done.. The rest is just clockwork and patience..

I want to make sure I provide the T04Z with the most lavish of surroundings and comfort.. I need her to do some great things with very little boost.. I expect no less than 25HP per psi of boost to the back wheels..

If I can hit 330RWHP @ 6psi on my first dyno, I will have accomplished my goal..

Being that I will always remain directly in he center of the compressor map with my turbine and compressor selection, if we base each pasi of boost on 25RWHP, I will need 6psi for 330RWHP, 8psi for 380RWHP and 9psi for 407RWHP...

This is where I desire to be.. 9psi of boost is perfect for a daily driver...

Later on after the injector and fuel pump upgrade we will go to 10psi and grab 432RWHP and 11psi and grab 457RWHP...

I will cheat and use the Water/Meth to make my goals if need be.. I will get to 450RWHP Buckman, on the stock motor and daily drive it, you have my word!!

I am only concerned with the damage the TQ will do at 450RWHP! I found some brand new take-off GT 8.8 rearends with 3.55's for $599!

[MSP]

Originally Posted by dapack69

To me water meth is just a band aid, but what do I know.

Water/meth increases the octane level to no less than 110 octane.. So a band aid for controlling octane levels. Yes..

I am not sure who introduced the theory that I somehow needed meth to cool boost temps.. I like meth for the octane factor...

Someone has apparently made their own assumption, and introduced it into this thread.. Don't do that.. Don't make any assumptions as things pertain to me.. If I have a temperature problem, I will take active steps to counter the problems. Until then dont introduce things which confuses the public perception..

Also, to make power water/meth injection if sprayed at the mid range rpm level well help promote hp because it will keep the combustion chamber 400F-700F cooler at high rpm's.. This temperature ratio has nothing at all to do with boost temps..

These are Rankin temperature's which are much higher than boost temps..

[fazm]

Originally Posted by MSP

Welcome to the thread Buckman!! Your more than welcome to stop by anytime and check out my progress.. I'm done working on it today! Gonna relax and enjoy the weekend...

I'll get back on it starting on Monday... I got the most difficult part all done.. The rest is just clockwork and patience..

I want to make sure I provide the T04Z with the most lavish of surroundings and comfort.. I need her to do some great things with very little boost.. I expect no less than 25HP per psi of boost to the back wheels..

If I can hit 330RWHP @ 6psi on my first dyno, I will have accomplished my goal..

Being that I will always remain directly in he center of the compressor map with my turbine and compressor selection, if we base each pasi of boost on 25RWHP, I will need 6psi for 330RWHP, 8psi for 380RWHP and 9psi for 407RWHP...

This is where I desire to be.. 9psi of boost is perfect for a daily driver...

Later on after the injector and fuel pump upgrade we will go to 10psi and grab 432RWHP and 11psi and grab 457RWHP...

I will cheat and use the Water/Meth to make my goals if need be.. I will get to 450RWHP Buckman, on the stock motor and daily drive it, you have my word!!

I am only concerned with the damage the TQ will do at 450RWHP! I found some brand new take-off GT 8.8 rearends with 3.55's for $599!

you must keep forgetting about the valve float issue. the float starts getting really bad over 7 to 9psi. at 9psi i was making about 20rwhp/psi with mild valve float. at 12psi it drops significantly to about 18rwhp/psi with severe valve float.

why not set your goals a little lower. last time u wanted 380'ish rwhp on 6psi with the other turbos, and fell short. i really dont see you hitting the power goals you set, at the PSI levels. for you to think that with 1 less PSI you will make 47 more rwhp than me is insane. at 12psi i am still pefectly in my efficiencey range, so i dont know where you are going to be picking up the extra 70+ horsepower at the same 12psi boost level.

[MSP]

Originally Posted by fazm

you must keep forgetting about the valve float issue. the float starts getting really bad over 7 to 9psi. at 9psi i was making about 20rwhp/psi with mild valve float. at 12psi it drops significantly to about 18rwhp/psi with severe valve float.

why not set your goals a little lower. last time u wanted 380'ish rwhp on 6psi with the other turbos, and fell short. i really dont see you hitting the power goals you set, at the PSI levels. for you to think that with 1 less PSI you will make 47 more rwhp than me is insane. at 12psi i am still pefectly in my efficiencey range, so i dont know where you are going to be picking up the extra 70+ horsepower at the same 12psi boost level.

For you to fabricate and say I wanted 380RWHP from 6psi is totally ridiculous! That thread is still there, anyone can freely go find a quote where I say I wanted 380RWHP on 6psi..

LOL!

[MSP]

Also Fazm, I will have to see about the valve float issue... Thats a given..
But setting my goals lower to make you feel better is not in the cards.. I would never lowball my goals to boost another persons ego..

Your trippin!

[MSP]

Here is my last dyno with the twins Fazm @ 6psi




This was done with twins which each was capable of 31lbs/min each! A total of 62lbs/min total..

The next dyno will be done with a compressor wheel capable of flowing 75lbs/min..

Atleast give me a chance to make my goals Fazm.. Let me show you.. LOL!

Have faith my brotha!

[fazm]

Originally Posted by MSP

Also Fazm, I will have to see about the valve float issue... Thats a given..
But setting my goals lower to make you feel better is not in the cards.. I would never lowball my goals to boost another persons ego..

Your trippin!

i said 380ish, i didnt feel like lookin up old threads, but i remembered u saying things about wanting rwhp around mine, with less boost, maybe u said with 8psi, not sure.

" know the car is way over 300HP before 5psi is attained because of the SOTP..."
this indicates you have "way over" 300hp before 5psi, which means 4 or less psi.
"I am looking for 400RWHP by 9psi.. "
sounds familiar.
"Dude I want 360RWHP so bad! Thats what I want to see"
ok, guess i was wrong, u wanted 360rwhp on 6psi.


im not saying it cant be done, but im saying you've always set your goals high, and fallen short.

when i went to my first 9psi dyno, i wanted 335rwhp/370rwtq. Mike @ PH guessed i would hit about 340/400. we were both shocked at the 371/402

[MSP]

Originally Posted by fazm

i said 380ish, i didnt feel like lookin up old threads, but i remembered u saying things about wanting rwhp around mine, with less boost, maybe u said with 8psi, not sure.

" know the car is way over 300HP before 5psi is attained because of the SOTP..."
this indicates you have "way over" 300hp before 5psi, which means 4 or less psi.
"I am looking for 400RWHP by 9psi.. "
sounds familiar.
"Dude I want 360RWHP so bad! Thats what I want to see"
ok, guess i was wrong, u wanted 360rwhp on 6psi.


im not saying it cant be done, but im saying you've always set your goals high, and fallen short.

when i went to my first 9psi dyno, i wanted 335rwhp/370rwtq. Mike @ PH guessed i would hit about 340/400. we were both shocked at the 371/402

We will see what happens.. Don't forget I tune my own car also.. No one wants to sell a guy like me a tune, cause they know I will do something great with it...

We'll see what happens!

[Rygen]

Originally Posted by MSP

Probably because Rebecca is jaded from the Collective..

I don't see how this is the case, and if it was how it would have anything to do with Justin selling you tunes.

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by Rygen

I don't see how this is the case, and if it was how it would have anything to do with Justin selling you tunes.

I have already addressed that with him