oh boy, 4.2 gone wrong

[itschristorres8]

ok so the 4.2L procharger that ive been mentioning for a while had an issue
aside from the other belt slipping off the tensioner issue.
ok belt slips/shreads off at 4500 rpms...
well budddy decided i guess he wanted to go beyond that mark.... no idea why
now he told me he screwed up either the wiring to the CPS or the CPS
he went got a new CPS and it was still mis-firing. i said check your plugs see if they're fouled
well he only check #2 or #1 on the motor and it looked fine then later down the road he check #4 cause it was still acting up i guess.

well #4 was bad so he changed them all and now he says 1 plug is missing a tip and inside...now i asked how much of the tip he said like the whole thing...now im telling you as much detail as i got.

now this is just like a huge kick in the ass because $500 is still owed on the motor. he's at ford i guess slipping in the car for the night i have no idea and the motor has been alive for less then a month.

the entire time i drove it for 2weeks canned tune it was FINE. fine until he decided to hit 4500+

long story short

anyway pretty positive theres no way in hell the piston shot up and smashed it by coming off the connecting Rod.

my only thought is the CPS got damaged and while damaged screwed up the timing and the spark plugs possibly just burnt to hell. he hears the tip rattling inside so its not coming out the exhaust valve.

anyone else have any other ideas?

[FlamingPony]

Holy crap .. That sucks

[itschristorres8]

i mean worst case the tip light scratchs the wall. its a tip that weighs next to nothing
id imagine at most a little more blow by.
but to fully remove everything safely the head has to come off
and i doubt ford knows the torque specs on the ARP head studs for a V6

[slvr2000stang]

Damn the Performance Business can really suck.

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

Damn the Performance Business can really suck.

only when the owner does what he know he cant
thats like watching someone press a button that will blow up their house and he knows it will but he presses it anyway...

[Hiposilverandaway]

That sucks.

[itschristorres8]

that link shows a blank page?

anyway i saw a pic of the plug
its just the tip probably burned off due to shitty timing cause the CPS got screwed

[V6Sprout]

yeah could have just burned the tip off, if the plug doesn't look too damaged I'd say it burned it off.

[CobraSnakebyte]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8

that link shows a blank page?

anyway i saw a pic of the plug
its just the tip probably burned off due to shitty timing cause the CPS got screwed

Hahaha! Add the URL to your media player and enjoy hilarity! Thanks for the link, Derrick. That has many applications. I've been meaning to find it, but never got around to it.

On topic, that really sucks Chris. You should provide the ARP torque specs to Ford to prevent further mishaps.

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by CobraSnakebyte

Hahaha! Add the URL to your media player and enjoy hilarity! Thanks for the link, Derrick. That has many applications. I've been meaning to find it, but never got around to it.

On topic, that really sucks Chris. You should provide the ARP torque specs to Ford to prevent further mishaps.

i told him to call me in the morning. i can only imagine what they're doing. if they're replacing the head so much stuff can go wrong. stock rocker arm torque specs on rocker arms that ARENT stock lol they should know when they see lock nuts...
then ARP studs..they're probably try to replace..
but its an over night thing, i doubt hes taking out the head.
plus the torque spec will be way off
stock spark plugs

but after seeing somewhat of a picture im almost positive that it just burnt off

also note he was tuned on 93 and ran 91 which isnt a HUGE diff but with incorrect timing it cant help

[Phil]

I have burned up the tip of sparkplugs in the past. He was using too hot of a plug and the detonation burned it up.

So, first do a compression check. Reply with the numbers. Second, buy NGK BR7EF plugs ($1.50 each) which will solve the burned plug problem. Your friend will be lucky if the tip burned and did not break off and get wedged between the valve head and the seat. If it did, it will show up as weak cylinder compression in comparison to the others.

Next, TELL the impatient youth to cool it on the throttle till he gets the bugs worked out. Get the belt aligned!! Get a tune afterwards.

[GT-EATER]

Wow , I would never give a car back to a customer unless it was 100% dyno tuned after installing a brand new engine , you know they are going to beat on it even if you tell them not to .
The CPS only controls injector timing not spark timing , and HE replaced the CPS , did he have the tool or the knowledge to handle that ?
Sorry to hear that happened .

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Wow , I would never give a car back to a customer unless it was 100% dyno tuned after installing a brand new engine , you know they are going to beat on it even if you tell them not to .
The CPS only controls injector timing not spark timing , and HE replaced the CPS , did he have the tool or the knowledge to handle that ?
Sorry to hear that happened .

he has to be in washington by july 10th for the army. the motor was in perfect working order only issue is the belt issue. Truly i wasnt suppose to install the motor and tranny but i did anyways and for the price of free to . which i later felt the hit for it

by CPS i meant Crank sensor not sure why i didnt specify.

truly if it were up to me i wouldnt want it to leave with out a modded belt tensioner or an 8rib system on the car
then again i hate s/c's
so does he


and whats worse is on a forum he makes it seem like the tip was my fault because i installed that plug? im like wtf? i explained why the tip got burnt off but im not sure if he's 100% to understand. he does like 20hour drives or just long continuous drives

sad thing is theres still money owed on the motor that im being nice to wait on..due to his money issues. w/e he trust his car with me for a month im hoping i can do the same with the money

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8

he has to be in washington by july 10th for the army. the motor was in perfect working order only issue is the belt issue. Truly i wasnt suppose to install the motor and tranny but i did anyways and for the price of free to . which i later felt the hit for it

by CPS i meant Crank sensor not sure why i didnt specify.

truly if it were up to me i wouldnt want it to leave with out a modded belt tensioner or an 8rib system on the car
then again i hate s/c's
so does he


and whats worse is on a forum he makes it seem like the tip was my fault because i installed that plug? im like wtf? i explained why the tip got burnt off but im not sure if he's 100% to understand. he does like 20hour drives or just long continuous drives

sad thing is theres still money owed on the motor that im being nice to wait on..due to his money issues. w/e he trust his car with me for a month im hoping i can do the same with the money

Another good lession to learn is don't let the customer go until its 100% paid up , its business , and people will screw you believe me I know first hand how that feels , you want to help them out then when you do , they screw you .

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Another good lession to learn is don't let the customer go until its 100% paid up , its business , and people will screw you believe me I know first hand how that feels , you want to help them out then when you do , they screw you .

yeah, i have a feeling its headed that way to. the mechanic he went to is having issues now with it supposedly getting smash....i said bullshit but w/e
now i doubt i'll see the $$ because he probably thinks this is my fault despite the car being perfect until this issue he caused.
then blame w/e failure on me. i broke the motor in 600miles
within the 600miles i first broke in the cam, 30min then change the oil
drove 50miles change the oil and changed the plugs
it still ran just fine with the tune i was working with to 600miles. we then change the oil and plugs again
he drove to vmp
no issues
drove to North carolina...no issues
drove another 1000miles no issues
went beyond his KNOWN limit damaged the crank sensor and now issue


but in the end it will be seen as my fault in his eyes
live and learn
i just hope i get my money because its delaying my personal dyno day for my car
and the issue is now my issue after handing him a motor with absolutly no spark issue or sensor issues


its really gonna suck because he gave me $500 for oil, gas, antifreeze etc. for the motor. $180 for the main line hone that came out of the $500 not what i charged for the motor. i spent more then the $500 breaking it in. also came out of me...i spent a day and half installing all his parts and new parts and making sure everything worked correctly. and had it take up space in my backyard with my dad bitching at me. installed the motor and new parts for not 1 dime!
w/e being nice doesnt pay off i guess despite the already balls low price he got for the motor.
same with a core that someone owe's me


give a finger they take the hand

[itschristorres8]

oh ****ing boy
sorry for the language just pissed that brand new motor i built is wasted
apparently the exhaust valve dropped. push rod was damaged. valve spring retainer broke and supposedly the valve spring as well

my guess is while the tip of the plug was trying to leave it got caught and damage the retainer somehow which inturn well lead to the rest.

well as you know a motor running with the exhaust valve dropped only means 1 thing..
that cylinder is gone. im not sure about the cylinder walls but the piston is damaged and the brand new CNC head as well

so i called Mik and asked for 1 CNC head and piston...i left a msg since he wasnt there
i think someone is selling 3 ross pistons which happens to be the same compression ratio...
if he's lucky enough to get it over night
who knows
the head i said he can switch to stock heads for now as a best resort since i highly doubt a CNC will be ready and sent over night



anyone know part number for the longer push rods?
and where to get 1 valve spring .580-.600 lift that RPM has.

[JB99]

Damn

Good luck dealing with this guy, and hopefully you'll get all the $$$$.

You know what they say....make it idiot proof and they'll make a better idiot.

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by JB99

Damn

Good luck dealing with this guy, and hopefully you'll get all the $$$$.

You know what they say....make it idiot proof and they'll make a better idiot.

lmao i never heard that saying but lol its funny lol just brighten things up for me actually

i get over things fast and tend to say w/e fu** it. live and learn
lol oh that was funny

[ESG-642T]

Remember out aim chats?

Hate to say I told you so.. Gary makes great points about not letting something leave without it being 100% ready to go, or getting legal documentation of the work you did and it being no longer your fault once it drives off your property and signed buy the customer. From a business standpoint you've gotta do it to protect YOURSELF.

Anyway sorry to hear your 1st motor was owned and only made like <400hp

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by SSStang

Remember out aim chats?

Hate to say I told you so.. Gary makes great points about not letting something leave without it being 100% ready to go, or getting legal documentation of the work you did and it being no longer your fault once it drives off your property and signed buy the customer. From a business standpoint you've gotta do it to protect YOURSELF.

Anyway sorry to hear your 1st motor was owned and only made like <400hp

well he knows that what happend now is not my issue
i do not at all plan on sending any money for this.
i'll help find the piston and head etc...payment isnt my problem
just getting my payment is

[slvr2000stang]

Originally Posted by JB99

Damn

Good luck dealing with this guy, and hopefully you'll get all the $$$$.

You know what they say....make it idiot proof and they'll make a better idiot.

Unfortunately I doubt it.

[ESG-642T]

Can't say this is the best way to throw away 5 grand...

[V6Sprout]

*cries* OUCH!

[slvr2000stang]

That's carnage

[Rookie]

That is one unhappy looking cylinder. That being said:

1) I thought the ends of the pushrods were supposed to be round.
2) I didn't realize that valves aren't supposed to have 90 degree bends.

On the good side, looks like the bore isn't bad - just a quick cleanup, new piston, check the rod (make sure it's not damaged/bent), new head, valve, spring, pushrod and it should be back in business. So what exactly happened? The retainer and locks look like they came OFF and the valve dropped. That's damn peculiar.

[slvr2000stang]

Who's was that?

[spoiledv6]

Ouch that does look bad.

[GT-EATER]

Looks like a spring broke and it went down hill from there .

[Rookie]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Looks like a spring broke and it went down hill from there .

That's what I'm thinking. That's about the only way I can think of to have the retainers and locks release. If it were the pushrod, the spring would still hold the retainers tight and not release the valve. And that spring looks f*cked up.

Maybe he ran it a lot higher than 4500 rpm? Like 6500-7000 rpm and the springs weren't happy with that? I'm assuming those were new springs, right?

I mean damn, the guys at MM/FF were breaking rocker studs with their recent FRPP BOSS block cobra build and they didn't do any real damage to the engine. That's some crazy ass carnage there.

[itschristorres8]

wow wtf...i thought he said it was the exhaust valve. deffinitly the intake valve
and that has nothing to do with the timing or the plug. or the heat range.
seems like the spring is a defect
or idk what happend

[WindsorStang]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

Who's was that?

I'm not sure on the owner, but that is the engine in question.

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Looks like a spring broke and it went down hill from there .

I'll second that observation

Originally Posted by itschristorres8

wow wtf...i thought he said it was the exhaust valve. deffinitly the intake valve
and that has nothing to do with the timing or the plug. or the heat range.
seems like the spring is a defect
or idk what happend

That could be the case, or he over reved the motor and the spring went solid and THEN broke.

[GT-EATER]

That would be my guess too Kyle , he over reved it, hit coil bind and the spring broke , it didn't eject the valve , the valve got stuck all the way open which is why the valve stem is bent , then the head of the valve broke off and did the head bowl damage , the push rod was probably damaged in the initial hit . Chris what springs did you use , did you use stock retainers ?

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

That would be my guess too Kyle , he over reved it, hit coil bind and the spring broke , it didn't eject the valve , the valve got stuck all the way open which is why the valve stem is bent , then the head of the valve broke off and did the head bowl damage , the push rod was probably damaged in the initial hit . Chris what springs did you use , did you use stock retainers ?

im awaiting the email from Mik on the spring #
they're the ones on his site rated to .580-.600 lift
the retainers i believe are ls1 retainers. not the stock ones. you can tell from the flat top instead of having a grove like stock
i just installed the same springs and retainers truly IMO these ls1 retainers look weaker then stock

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8

im awaiting the email from Mik on the spring #
they're the ones on his site rated to .580-.600 lift
the retainers i believe are ls1 retainers. not the stock ones. you can tell from the flat top instead of having a grove like stock
i just installed the same springs and retainers truly IMO these ls1 retainers look weaker then stock

I like the titanium retainers , they are a little more expensive but well worth the extra money . What was the install height on those springs , also did you actually measure to get the correct pushrod length ?

[CobraSnakebyte]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

I like the titanium retainers , they are a little more expensive but well worth the extra money .

+1. It's like buying slightly more expensive insurance but getting the best possible coverage.

[itschristorres8]

they're the retainers that come with the CNC heads on rpm.
the push rods came with the came. everything was ordered together
i got the heads, push rods, camshaft, gaskets, lifters timing chain and tensior all in the same box
the guides came with the rockers arms
everything was made to work with each other from rpm. the rocker arms with those heads since they have the machined work for it.
i did not check the length on the push rod. the caliper i have only goes to 6in same with the calipers at the shop where i built the motor, so i just assumed Mik sent the correct length with the cam. while adjusting the rocker arms i ran into no problems. i double checked each cylinder after installing the first time around, lash was just fine. the push rod how no up and down play. and the nut was tighten just as directed

weather or not it has titanium or the ls1 retainers im un-sure, and its not mentioned on the site with the CNC heads. Im still awaiting a phone or email from Mik...im guesing he may be out of town or busy though

[Hiposilverandaway]

Ehhhhh....that'll buff right out.

Yep that looks like over rev.

Holy shite, who is the lucky owner?

[slvr2000stang]

I used the LS1 retainers on my 3.8 motor and revved the piss out of it with no problems.

Eventhough as you said it was sold as a package, best practices call for double checking pushrod length & spring install height so yo know it's 100% correct.

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

I used the LS1 retainers on my 3.8 motor and revved the piss out of it with no problems.

Eventhough as you said it was sold as a package, best practices call for double checking pushrod length & spring install height so yo know it's 100% correct.

Asolutely , install height is very important as well as the correct pushrod length doesn't matter if its a package deal or not .

[itschristorres8]

pistons can only be sold in sets of 4 and it'll have to weighed anyway with the others
looks like they're in for hell. I have no idea how their going to get the piston off the rod with the spiral lox on it.
little rediculous now everything has to come off but the crank. new bearings in and another breakin.

[slvr2000stang]

Oh ya, with new pistons the whole thing needs to be re-balanced.

It's a cluster no matter how you look at it.

[matthewneuharth]

you sure you know what you are doing.

cause something was not checked on that engine by the person building it.

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by matthewneuharth

you sure you know what you are doing.

cause something was not checked on that engine by the person building it.

please explain oh great genius since so many of Delks motor turn out soo good...tool bag

as you can see a SPRING collapsed...
the CNC heads cam assembled

if you can READ you'll see some other faults by the owner..

unlike DELK and you that motor had no mechanical error with skirt wear. garbage as F**k piston.

the spring collapsed....the PTV was more then safe either the spring is a factory defect or the CNC'd head machining was at fault


i dont expect someone that cant build a motor correctly to understand that though like you and DELK


bring w/e you got...YOU AND YOUR COMPANY ARE GARBAGE!
see what DELK and your slow a$$ single port says in spring for a money race


i'll see you soon matt

[itschristorres8]

oh btw i forgot to mention there was about a 2month delay on this motor build because MATT over at DELK doesnt know what thread pitch is used for the main studs/bolts

although he sells them? he sent them wrong.. TWICE...
its no wonder Kirks motor failed...if someone cannot even pick the right bolt/stud how can they assemble a motor

F**kin tool

[062stang]

damn thats alot of beef

-umesh