Project Shiner 2

[Shinerstang]

Most of you know where this car came from, so there's no denying that this car is definitely going to be a runner. We are going through the car to get it ready for its' first trip to Beech Bend. We got everything tweeked, and started blowing tranny fluid everywhere on a trip down the road. Ended up being the pump seal, so it's out of the car, and getting dropped off in the morning. I'll pick it up tomorrow after work, and get it back in by tomorrow night.(We're getting too good at removing trannies.) It really wasn't worth taking it out and shipping it back to PA eventhough it's brand new. There's not much of the race season left, and I'll be damned if it is going to sit until next year.

It feels much stronger now after adjusting the rockers and the A/F is back to normal......

[WindsorStang]

Glad to see you moving out on the car Tom!

[matthewneuharth]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Most of you know where this car came from, so there's no denying that this car is definitely going to be a runner. We are going through the car to get it ready for its' first trip to Beech Bend. We got everything tweeked, and started blowing tranny fluid everywhere on a trip down the road. Ended up being the pump seal, so it's out of the car, and getting dropped off in the morning. I'll pick it up tomorrow after work, and get it back in by tomorrow night.(We're getting too good at removing trannies.) It really wasn't worth taking it out and shipping it back to PA eventhough it's brand new. There's not much of the race season left, and I'll be damned if it is going to sit until next year.

It feels much stronger now after adjusting the rockers and the A/F is back to normal......

glad to hear that. yea Gary called me about that dang leak.

hurry up its getting cooler out. times should be real good in this weather.

[Shinerstang]

Tranny is back in. 1:15 minutes from start to finish. We're like a regular pit crew here.......

Beech Bend tomorrow.......

[_J_]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Tranny is back in. 1:15 minutes from start to finish. We're like a regular pit crew here.......

Beech Bend tomorrow.......

wow .. thats moving .. congrats ... keep us posted!!

[slvr2000stang]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Tranny is back in. 1:15 minutes from start to finish. We're like a regular pit crew here.......

Beech Bend tomorrow.......

I knew you guys would make the track today!

[Shinerstang]

Well, we made the track, and that was about it. Was working on the Daiblosport, and it stop downloading in the middle of the tune install. Error message, then it wouldn't let me go on any further without downloading the stock or mail order performance tune. Of course it's not going to recognize 83# injectors, and 17# of boost, so it was back on the trailer. Damn!!!!!

Gotta mail out the tuner to Delk for a reburn...... Matt, I better get it back by next weekend.......LOL

[slvr2000stang]

Man that sucks.

On another note I hear Jr had a great day.

[Shinerstang]

Yeah, he was pumped...... I enjoyed watching him anyway.

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Well, we made the track, and that was about it. Was working on the Daiblosport, and it stop downloading in the middle of the tune install. Error message, then it wouldn't let me go on any further without downloading the stock or mail order performance tune. Of course it's not going to recognize 83# injectors, and 17# of boost, so it was back on the trailer. Damn!!!!!

Gotta mail out the tuner to Delk for a reburn...... Matt, I better get it back by next weekend.......LOL

You need to go get her tuned , reburning a tune that isn't right isn't the correct way to go

[_J_]

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

You need to go get her tuned , reburning a tune that isn't right isn't the correct way to go

x2 ... get her on the dyno and get her DYNO tune!! and verify everything is
100% have her pull to max RPM on the dyno, data log everything and
be safe than sorry..

man that sucks.. I was under the impression that the car was dyno tune before?
what has change?

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by _J_

x2 ... get her on the dyno and get her DYNO tune!! and verify everything is
100% have her pull to max RPM on the dyno, data log everything and
be safe than sorry..

man that sucks.. I was under the impression that the car was dyno tune before?
what has change?

if i remember this correctly last time it was tuned with a built G-force and now has a C4 tranny(auto)

so loads and other things have to be set plus all the other great things auto offers


unless that was previously done but ive not heard that yet.

[_J_]

hmm the Auto is in.. nice .. what's the dyno numbers with the Auto?

[slvr2000stang]

Originally Posted by _J_

hmm the Auto is in.. nice .. what's the dyno numbers with the Auto?

It has not been on the dyno since the C4 was installed. Tom was the first one to drive it since the install.

The last dyno & current tune was for the G-Force.

[GT-EATER]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

It has not been on the dyno since the C4 was installed. Tom was the first one to drive it since the install.

The last dyno & current tune was for the G-Force.

Thats correct , after the performance tune is re-loaded it would only take a couple of pulls to tweak the tune to adjust the fuel tabes and timing .

[GT-EATER]

Oh and Tom forgot to mention he put her on the scale with a full fuel cell it was 3,000 Lbs
with no driver . It was 3050 in stock configuration .

[spoiledv6]

Yeah, get it on a dyno. I was lean down low and fat up high with just an upper swap.

With a few tweaks on my previous tune, i picked up 10 hp before the pump decided WOW you are making some powa and went to 98-100 DTC!

So just be safe and get it on a roller. I have to take mine back which is a pain but I will do it to be safe.

[Shinerstang]

I agree guys. Just need to get roller time......

I talked to Brent, and he was too busy to fit us in last week. He told me to call him on Tuesday to maybe fit me in, but I have to work all week, so I'm not sure.

[_J_]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

It has not been on the dyno since the C4 was installed. Tom was the first one to drive it since the install.

The last dyno & current tune was for the G-Force.

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Thats correct , after the performance tune is re-loaded it would only take a couple of pulls to tweak the tune to adjust the fuel tabes and timing .

ahhh thanks for clearing that up.. Very happy the conversion went well,
then all it needs is just an basic fine tuning, thats the first things I would do
just to be safe and know everything is on the money ..

Originally Posted by GT-EATER

Oh and Tom forgot to mention he put her on the scale with a full fuel cell it was 3,000 Lbs
with no driver . It was 3050 in stock configuration .

wow thats sweet!! makes me feel like a fat ass lol :)

With his race weight and power, he should be running mid to low 9's "after" he
learns the car .. get it dialed-in etc..

Congrats again Tom .. you got one sweet setup man!! just do the right thing
take the little time needed to get it 100% .. you'll have her for a very long time there is no rush..

[_J_]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

I agree guys. Just need to get roller time......

I talked to Brent, and he was too busy to fit us in last week. He told me to call him on Tuesday to maybe fit me in, but I have to work all week, so I'm not sure.

I know that feeling ... but please don't rush it man!! you got the ONLY
split-port turbo setup that’s capable of mid to low 9's !! my fat ass Vert setup
will never see pass 9.8's, 9.7's if I am very lucky!! so I'll never see Matt's times,
and you know I'll love to see the split-port in the mid to low 9’s one day !!
don’t have to be this year and I know its going to take a lot of time to learn
your new setup so .. don’t think right off the bat you’ll see them numbers,
just try and enjoy her as you dialed her in..

IMO would not run her WOT untill its been dyno tune (fine tune that is)

[afinley11]

Tom just keep after it, I geuss we will see the time next week end! But always lean towards the safe side!!!

[matthewneuharth]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Gotta mail out the tuner to Delk for a reburn...... Matt, I better get it back by next weekend.......LOL

waiting on you.

[Shinerstang]

Come to think of it, you could have brought it to my house considering you had to come up this way today anyway.... He-he

[Shinerstang]

Well, I wish I had good news for you guys, but I took it to Delk yesterday for a dynotune. Brent took it for a ride down the road to check the A/F and do some datalogging on the Predator. On his second trip, he noticed a noise coming from the motor. It was not present on his first run, so we put it up on the dynolift so see where it is coming from. Well, it appears to be something down low-maybe a bearing.

So guess what? Out with the motor and teardown begins again.
We will be taking out the motor at our shop, and Delk will be fixing whatever is wrong with it. I think that is fair for both parties......

[_J_]

OMG!!! are you for real man!!! :( no F*ing way!!
Damm SUCKS!!!! That is crazy .. is that not the new motor
that just got built the other day?

Wish you best of luck man, hope its something easy to fix,
but I know pulling a motor in/out is a PITA :(

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Well, I wish I had good news for you guys, but I took it to Delk yesterday for a dynotune. Brent took it for a ride down the road to check the A/F and do some datalogging on the Predator. On his second trip, he noticed a noise coming from the motor. It was not present on his first run, so we put it up on the dynolift so see where it is coming from. Well, it appears to be something down low-maybe a bearing.

So guess what? Out with the motor and teardown begins again.
We will be taking out the motor at our shop, and Delk will be fixing whatever is wrong with it. I think that is fair for both parties......

[slvr2000stang]

It's the motor Delk built for Gary earlier this year. Just a few hours of runtime on it.

[Phil]

Damn!! Keep us posted on the details. Send it to Texas. My guy can flat build a motor.

[_J_]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

It's the motor Delk built for Gary earlier this year. Just a few hours of runtime on it.

thats crazy why all the issues!!! its a built motor!!! are they not using the
same parts all the built motors are using? or is it some custom parts that just don't work? :(

[Shinerstang]

Originally Posted by _J_

thats crazy why all the issues!!! its a built motor!!! are they not using the
same parts all the built motors are using? or is it some custom parts that just don't work? :(

It's pretty much the same as everyone's motor. There are some differences, but nothing that we would consider major.

[Shinerstang]

Originally Posted by Phil

Damn!! Keep us posted on the details. Send it to Texas. My guy can flat build a motor.

We have Gearhead right next door to us, that has been building motors and racing for 30 years. He can put together one like no other, but we need to have Delk do it because they built it. There may be machine shop work along with parts that needs to be purchased and that's not doable for me right now considering I sold my left nut for the car. I trust Delk can do it and find out where these failures are coming from.

[WindsorStang]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

Well, I wish I had good news for you guys, but I took it to Delk yesterday for a dynotune. Brent took it for a ride down the road to check the A/F and do some datalogging on the Predator. On his second trip, he noticed a noise coming from the motor. It was not present on his first run, so we put it up on the dynolift so see where it is coming from. Well, it appears to be something down low-maybe a bearing.

So guess what? Out with the motor and teardown begins again.
We will be taking out the motor at our shop, and Delk will be fixing whatever is wrong with it. I think that is fair for both parties......

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

We have Gearhead right next door to us, that has been building motors and racing for 30 years. He can put together one like no other, but we need to have Delk do it because they built it. There may be machine shop work along with parts that needs to be purchased and that's not doable for me right now considering I sold my left nut for the car. I trust Delk can do it and find out where these failures are coming from.

Not good Tom. SOrry to hear about you having issues with the car. It seems to be that that is the way these things go most of the time though. At the power/performance levels you are at with the car right now, things like this are going to be more common.

[_J_]

Originally Posted by WindsorStang

Not good Tom. SOrry to hear about you having issues with the car. It seems to be that that is the way these things go most of the time though. At the power/performance levels you are at with the car right now, things like this are going to be more common.

I don't know man .. that motor has not been running that long and head for all the failures.. got to be
something else or defective parts or something, I got local friends with ssm motor running hard from 2005
and still running strong, my rpm motor been install from 2006 and running hard from 2007 .. this motor seen
more long and hard WOT runs at crazy speeds that no normal people will ever do, or should do .. and if we
have same or similar parts he should be running just as strong .. so I would not say its the current power
levels is the issue .. he is still within 600-650 range .. like myself and Matt..

and Matt has the same motor running for years no? only thing he did was upgrade the heads after some
issue but the shortblock is still the same untouched no?

its important for me to know so .. I'll know what to expect .. should I start taking it easy? cause come
next year I plan to run even harder!!

[matthewneuharth]

well as tom said something is makeing noise.

this engine has SSM Pistons and SSM Rods.

all Delk did was assemble it and go.

we will see what happened when we get it back.

and yes J i have beat the Heck out of mine for yrs. i put in new bearings and rings this yr cause of a lifter breaking and killing the cam. thats all i have had to do to it.

[Phil]

IMHO, that motor is not oiling correctly or the tolerances are not right. Have the main caps been line honed? Are you running the H-series main and rod bearings? Is there sufficient clearance on the main cap girdle with the corners of the main caps? Was the deck of the motor checked or shaved? Using a plastique gauge, what is the clearance on the rod bearings and the main bearings? Were the rod bearings chamfored to match the crank?

IMHO, you just cannot slap together a motor designed for 190HP and force it to 800HP without building in some very tight precision and some serious oiling ability.

[WindsorStang]

Originally Posted by _J_

I don't know man .. that motor has not been running that long and head for all the failures.. got to be
something else or defective parts or something, I got local friends with ssm motor running hard from 2005
and still running strong, my rpm motor been install from 2006 and running hard from 2007 .. this motor seen
more long and hard WOT runs at crazy speeds that no normal people will ever do, or should do .. and if we
have same or similar parts he should be running just as strong .. so I would not say its the current power
levels is the issue .. he is still within 600-650 range .. like myself and Matt..

and Matt has the same motor running for years no? only thing he did was upgrade the heads after some
issue but the shortblock is still the same untouched no?

its important for me to know so .. I'll know what to expect .. should I start taking it easy? cause come
next year I plan to run even harder!!

You're absolutely right for wanting to know what to expect...however; I'm not saying the power level should be "expected" to create these kinds of conditions. I'm simply saying that at these performance levels, you should at least be prepared for things to possibly go wrong, not that they inherently should. Sorry for the confusion!

Originally Posted by matthewneuharth

well as tom said something is makeing noise.

this engine has SSM Pistons and SSM Rods.

all Delk did was assemble it and go.

we will see what happened when we get it back.

and yes J i have beat the Heck out of mine for yrs. i put in new bearings and rings this yr cause of a lifter breaking and killing the cam. thats all i have had to do to it.

Am I correct in reading into your statement that the rods and pistons are (or you believe could be) the casue of the failure?

Originally Posted by Phil

IMHO, that motor is not oiling correctly or the tolerances are not right. Have the main caps been line honed? Are you running the H-series main and rod bearings? Is there sufficient clearance on the main cap girdle with the corners of the main caps? Was the deck of the motor checked or shaved? Using a plastique gauge, what is the clearance on the rod bearings and the main bearings? Were the rod bearings chamfored to match the crank?

IMHO, you just cannot slap together a motor designed for 190HP and force it to 800HP without building in some very tight precision and some serious oiling ability.

These are along the lines of the questions I would be posing. Simply throwing some pistons and rods and a girlde in a block doesn't constitute a built engine. Tolerences/clearances can make or break an engine, especially at the performance levels expected to be achieved by a powerplant like this.

[_J_]

Originally Posted by WindsorStang

You're absolutely right for wanting to know what to expect...however; I'm not saying the power level should be "expected" to create these kinds of conditions. I'm simply saying that at these performance levels, you should at least be prepared for things to possibly go wrong, not that they inherently should. Sorry for the confusion!


These are along the lines of the questions I would be posing. Simply throwing some pistons and rods and a girlde in a block doesn't constitute a built engine. Tolerences/clearances can make or break an engine, especially at the performance levels expected to be achieved by a powerplant like this.

ahhh I hear ya .. and well said...

[slvr2000stang]

Originally Posted by WindsorStang

Am I correct in reading into your statement that the rods and pistons are (or you believe could be) the casue of the failure?

I would venture to guess Matt is just stating that those parts were not supplied by them, not that they were the cause.

Originally Posted by WindsorStang

Simply throwing some pistons and rods and a girlde in a block doesn't constitute a built engine. Tolerences/clearances can make or break an engine, especially at the performance levels expected to be achieved by a powerplant like this.

Buying the right parts is only part of the equation, being built properly is just as critical.

Anyone can assemble a motor but it takes talent & knowledge to "Build" one.

[WindsorStang]

Originally Posted by slvr2000stang

I would venture to guess Matt is just stating that those parts were not supplied by them, not that they were the cause.



Buying the right parts is only part of the equation, being built properly is just as critical.

Anyone can assemble a motor but it takes talent & knowledge to "Build" one.

Thats what I figured. I just wanted it to be clear.

You are correct sir!

[matthewneuharth]

if there was any confusion. i am sorry. i was just answering Js question on the parts inside the engine. trying to show him they are good parts.

the engine was not Slaped together and let it ride. lmfao. come on guys you know better then that. Plastigauge thats ok for a guy in his liveing room. useing a dial bore gauge to check oil clearances is the proper way to set those up.

and yes it was assembled right and everything was checked.


i love how ppl Jump in and think they know what happened to a engine and have no real data on it. and this goes for almost everyone. they Jump at a chance to Crap on any shop. be it SSM,RPM,Delk,Dynospeed,Speedydyno. i mean i can continue but why. and i am not just talking about ppl here i am talkking about the Web know it alls. it will drive a man crazy.

[slvr2000stang]

Originally Posted by matthewneuharth

if there was any confusion. i am sorry. i was just answering Js question on the parts inside the engine. trying to show him they are good parts.

the engine was not Slaped together and let it ride. lmfao. come on guys you know better then that. Plastigauge thats ok for a guy in his liveing room. useing a dial bore gauge to check oil clearances is the proper way to set those up.

and yes it was assembled right and everything was checked.


i love how ppl Jump in and think they know what happened to a engine and have no real data on it. and this goes for almost everyone. they Jump at a chance to Crap on any shop. be it SSM,RPM,Delk,Dynospeed,Speedydyno. i mean i can continue but why. and i am not just talking about ppl here i am talkking about the Web know it alls. it will drive a man crazy.

Not saying it was. Just commenting on the difference.

[Shinerstang]

I was trying to keep it positive guys......

No matter what, there is something wrong with it, and they are going to fix it. I think that says alot about them. I know how they've beat their heads against the wall with this build from day one, and this is not your everyday driver. We don't know what has gone wrong, we can only guess at this time.

We all may be able to learn from what has taken place and where the failure lies. Isn't that how we've all learned of what works and what doesn't? I mean we're not V8 guys-that's too easy.......

[_J_]

Originally Posted by Shinerstang

I was trying to keep it positive guys......

No matter what, there is something wrong with it, and they are going to fix it. I think that says alot about them. I know how they've beat their heads against the wall with this build from day one, and this is not your everyday driver. We don't know what has gone wrong, we can only guess at this time.

We all may be able to learn from what has taken place and where the failure lies. Isn't that how we've all learned of what works and what doesn't? I mean we're not V8 guys-that's too easy.......

that shows a good biz .. a biz that stand behind their work is a very good biz imo..
and x2 got to keep it positive and open so we all can understand whats been going on..
best to wait for the final results on what happen. the only way to know is to take the motor
apart and see what fail..

[slvr2000stang]

Originally Posted by _J_

that shows a good biz .. a biz that stand behind their work is a very good biz imo..
and x2 go to keep it positive and open so we all can understand whats been going on..
best to with for the final results on what happen. the only way to know is to take the motor
apart and see what fail..

Man that's for sure. :rockon:

[GT-EATER]

Sorry to hear about the engine Tom .

[Phil]

Originally Posted by matthewneuharth

if there was any confusion. i am sorry. i was just answering Js question on the parts inside the engine. trying to show him they are good parts.

the engine was not Slaped together and let it ride. lmfao. come on guys you know better then that. Plastigauge thats ok for a guy in his liveing room. useing a dial bore gauge to check oil clearances is the proper way to set those up.

and yes it was assembled right and everything was checked.

Matt, I was not pointing a finger. I know that motor was not slapped together (just reiterating what was already posted). But, I believe that you guys will be able to diagnose the problem when you pull that motor apart. My questions were posted so Tom would have some things to ask about and things to check for when re-assembly begins.

As J posted, it is important to post what went wrong. That helps all of us high HP guys be on the alert when doing maintenance or trying to diagnose a strange noise.